jeep mutt ??

[svramselaar]

hi

below a prototype jeep it like at the mutt ??
1963 - 1965
solid axles
separated chassis

http://www.terrein.nu/Cms_Data/Contents ... r-JUTT.jpg

george

[SturmTyger380]

Yes that looks like the Willys-Overland XM151 Prototype. But it would have been in the 52 - 56 time frame.

Alan

[Fil Bonica]

Some time ago Ken published an article covering a propsed plan to alleviate stability problems of the 151s
It basically replaced the whole suspension with a conventional al la m38a1.
The expense to convert vehicles was so high it was abandoned:
Ken may chime in with more info

Fil Bonica

[rickf]

Wasn't this the M-151 LC that our old friend Hummerkiller was trying to duplicate?

[Fil Bonica]

Ah yes!
Memories of the Past!!!
I prefer to remember Ken's article instead.

Fil Bonica

[rickf]

Yea.

[muttguru]

This photo is still a mystery. Here's a brief background.
In the early 1950's, Ford was tasked to investigate a new 1/4-tonner. There were two initial suggestions. First was a traditional truck with solid axles and leaf springs. The second was a truck which would use the latest (at that time) technology, so coil springs and independent suspension was to be utilized. Detailed drawings were produced but the only version to be given the go-ahead to build was the latter. Unless there's a hidden history which I've not been party to, there was no solid-axle XM version actually built. Willys was not involved in development of the Ford pilot at all and didn't begin to get involved in production until their contract to build M151s in 1963.

Shortly after the issue of the first series on the M151 in 1960 and 1961, reports started to arrive at HQ stating that the M151 was unstable and unpredictable. A US Army unit in Germany took it upon itself to remove the rear suspension on a handful of M151s and replace it with a solid rear axle. A visiting US senator became involved but despite his efforts to change the minds at TACOM, the Mil resisted the change to a solid axle modification.
By 1967/68 the accident rate of the M151 and M151A1 had increased so much that the spotlight was well and truly embarrassing TACOM. Ford was tasked by the Mil to investigate a safer suspension layout. Ford told the Mil that the current design of the rear suspension was at the root of the instability problem and explained that the cost of modifying the whole M151 fleet to solid rear axle was prohibitive. Ford recommended that a re-drawn vehicle would be better value for money, and this new vehicle would have trailing arm rear suspension. Ford convinced the Mil that this was the way to go. But the Mil still had thousands of M151 and A1 trucks which were deemed unsafe, so again Ford was asked to look into the possibility of modifying these vehicles using the trailing arm configuration which had now been adopted by the Mil. Several M151A1s were modified by Ford who added an extra rear crossmember to the A1, which facilitated the mounting of the trailing arm suspension and testing proved that the modification was indeed feasible. The Army decided that it would instead attempt to replace the whole fleet of M151 and M151A1 models with the "new" A2 version and this would be done as soon as possible. Ford's suggestion of adding an extra crossmember to the earlier models was not taken up.
As we all know, the plan to rapidly replace the earlier versions ran into trouble straight away and that's why the M151A1 was still in use throughout the 1980s.
When TACOM awarded the next M151A2 contract in 1971, it was to AM General, not Ford (but Ford continued to be awarded research contracts for the M151-series). AM General's management saw the production of a civilian version of the M151A2 as a possibility (much like it did with the Hummer version of the HMMWV), but first it wanted to develop and sell a "low-cost" version of the A2, with M38-style front and rear axles attached by leaf springs and so the M151A2-LC version was designed and some were produced. It seems that Canada was interested but ended up buying REAL A2s in 1974 and the M151A2-LC version never took off.
That's the history....now back to that picture Big George posted.
It isn't the LC version...it looks entirely different.It isn't the solid rear axle modification that was put together by Army mechanics in Germany. It isn't the 1967/68 Ford-modified M151A1 and it obviously isn't the Fletcher Flair nor the Mity Mite.....so what is it? I don't know! (yes Rick, you heard it right).
I don't normally like to guess but if I was pushed, I'd guess it was an attempt by Willys to design a civilian version of the M151 and I'd date it around the mid-1960's.

Comments will be very much appreciated
Ken

[old dodge guy]

Well, a little research shows .nu is probably Sweden/Netherlands, and such. See below.
From Wikipedia

Usage of .nu
The .nu domain is particularly popular in Sweden, Denmark, the Netherlands and Belgium, as nu is the word for "now" in Swedish, Danish and Dutch[2] - an example of a domain hack. "Nu" is also an archaic adverb meaning "now" in Norwegian, but "nå" is the more frequently used word and hence .nu is currently not used much by Norwegians. Partially owing to restrictive domain rules for the ccTLD assigned to Sweden, .se, .nu was used for creative marketing of websites such as http://www.tv.nu to show what is currently showing on TV, and in the Netherlands for websites like waarbenjij.nu, Dutch for whereareyou.now.

Could this be an overseas attempt, not a US one? There is a clock in the background, can anyone make out the box under it to see what it is. Could this be an individuals attempt, not a company? Mahindra in India?

Too many questions.

[m3a1]

Well, that looks like shocks and leaf springs up front. Other than that, there is an obvious nod to the 151 in the coach-work but not a lot else to go on so how much of that truck is pure 151 is pure conjecture.

[muttguru]

Yes, it's a mystery........ my copy of that photo dates from 2007 when someone posted it on one of the boards. There's no guarantee that the owner of the Dutch websire didn't copy it from the same place I did.....so it still remains unsolved.
Ken

[m3a1]

Exercise in logic -

Presuming the mystery truck was a serious effort, what's got me completely stumped is the suspension which, in this photo, is clearly solid axles.

In my mind, the fully independent suspension, not the drive-line, is the heart and soul of design of the M151-series of trucks. I simply can't get my head wrapped around the idea that there was such a serious effort to return to solid, straight axles that they decided to seriously consider an alternative truck.

Seems to me the next generation of military 4x4 would have been already on the drawing boards or nearly so, and if not, there certainly was going to be some chatter about what was coming after the M151 series that would take the wind from the sails of anyone considering any real alternatives, quick fixes or other herculean efforts.

But assuming for one moment that they were going to make a "rock soup" truck by pilfering the engine, trans and transfers of existing M151s and installing them in new bodies, what possible interest could they have in building bodies that so obviously had the flavor of the original M151 series...unless they were also considering re-using as much of the M151 fittings as possible...things such as tops, seats, etc. But even that doesn't sound like the way the government thinks. "Waste not. Want not." is a phrase rarely heard in governmental offices.

All of which brings me to this supposition. It wasn't a serious effort but someone decided to fab up a truck that just might possibly make it feasible and that design was laid to rest by "solutions" such as ROPS, improved suspensions and the assurance that the next generation of truck would be far better.

Fun stuff, all the sleuthing. Our little trucks are just as interesting because of what they aren't as much as because of what they are. Good times! Thanks for sharing, everyone.

Cheers,
TJ

[csmith]

Could it be a Encore style body mounted on a M38 style chassis???

[svramselaar]

hi

below the whole page only dutch
several other rare jeeps

http://www.terrein.nu/Actualiteit/Zeldzaam-RARE-Jeep-s

george

[SturmTyger380]

This is where I found the photos. Mid way down the page:

http://www.warwheels.net/M151muttINDEX.html

[rickf]

That was obviously the start of a show setup somewhere. The sign under the light is "EXIT". It is a convention center. Looking through the windshield of the vehicle shown from behind at the other vehicle the front end is strange. The rear corner view shows a lot of M-151 styling but also some subtle differences besides the obvious frame/body bit. Check out the seat covers but then look at the seat frames. The frames are kind of like a 151 but look cheesier. The pioneer tools, have we ever mounted an axe head forward? I am also thinking maybe Mihandra.

I remember seeing much better quality pictures than these of that vehicle. I think they have been copied so many times what we are seeing is worn out.