M151a2 questions

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M151a2 questions

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M151a2 questions

Postby Saberr » December 11th, 2017, 10:23 pm

HI, been poking around and reading from the shadows for a while. Decided to finally register. Been debating for about 3 years now on getting an m151a2. I ended up finding first an m38a1, i restored and then was not happy with its ride comfort or the speed, about 10 mph tooo slow to go get milk in my area, sold it :). I have been looking for an m151a2 since before selling it. I have a few questions i was hopping you guys could shed some light on, kind of hazy.
M151a2 i hear and seen on you tube is great for offroad. Ive read its only a mild off road, some medium size rocks and dips. Not solid axle so no major rocks, and lower than a lot lifted jeeps of course.What is its limits ? Am also aware of the safe until you tip feeling it can give you.
I've also read and been told they are noisy at higher speeds. Read up on here about possibly shiming transmission and possible using a Mercedes axle in rear ? Since i've driven m38a1 at high speed, i'm aware of some the sounds. What i was wondering is just how loud is it at the top speeds, at least in comparison to the other older jeeps ? Read to possible put sand bag or two in back ?
Just how much of an improvement does the independent suspension offer for on road comfort to m38a1 ? Ive heard from old timers that its basically a Cadillac in difference, but other reps said its still night and day to compare it to anything on a jeep now days, espec with coil overs.

What are your average mpg ? keep hearing from 10 to 20, just like a m38a1 lol. From personal experience i know not to expect amazing mpg. Has anyone ever looked into putting fuel injection system on ?

Like to get your guys opinion on a find of mine. Would of bought it at the time i went to look, but the registration wasn't ready at the time i was there. I found a 11-67 m151a2 budd. I have already been out there and been around the block in it once, ran and sort of stopped. Found two little spots of rust, about 1 days work rep (m38a1 had to replace all had channels and i swear half floor had to re weld together). Missing windshield and rear seat and they moved the batteries to inside right fender of engine bay and added a second m151fuel tank under passenger seat. Was done beautifully, and almost looks stock if you didn't know better. Would be easy to fix if one wanted to. All wiring is there and intact, turn signals are missing and one head light is bb gun out. There is of course tons of maint work to be done and needs new tires, has its dents, nothing major. Rear seat still has its mounting brackets on and has the plaque (washed out) by driver left, and budd tag on cowl of firewall. It didn't want to shift, and had to use the parking break to fully stop. Those i'm not as worried about because i believe both were dry. Found tons tranny fluid underneath it and along bottom side, prob leaked out with break fluid. It was 7 years since it was last ran. what would you guys say in now days marker this m151a2 budd would be worth roughly ?
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Re: M151a2 questions

Postby SEABEE62 » December 12th, 2017, 9:11 am

Welcome aboard...all your questions I would direct to the G's experts.....WAY TOO MANY FOR ME ! :shock: :D Seabee
1971 M151A2 MUTT , M416 trailer
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Re: M151a2 questions

Postby rickf » December 12th, 2017, 9:40 am

Welcome to the board Saberr. That is a lot of questions but that means you have been doing your research. Lets address the one you found first. A2's started in 1970 so either the year is wrong or the designation is wrong. You say it has a Budd tag so that is getting closer to an A1 BUT, it could be a very early Ford built A2. Does it have the A2 style front fenders? Composite turn signals? If the area between the fender and the grill is solid and not notched upwards then you have an early 1970 A2. If in fact it is an A1 then it will have a swing arm rear suspension.

Noise, yes they are LOUD! They had warning labels in them saying that hearing protection was required. The differentials are a different style then you are used to and they are not as beefy as a solid axle, on top of that they are mounted solid to the body and they are 4.88 gearing so they transmit a lot of noise. All of the "fixes" you mentioned have been tried with varying success. The Mercedes rear that George did in Holland worked very well but requires substantial fabrication. Plus the Mercedes diffs. A little easier to source in Holland.

As far as off road capability, it depends on what you intend to do with it. It has open diffs so like any other vehicle if you lift one tire at each end it stops. Off road it is a lot more stable than you would think. Remember, most of what you read on the internet is the bad stuff.

On any M-151 that you look at to buy keep in mind that there is no frame, it is a unibody. Also keep in mind that they were very prone to rusting out underneath. So look there especially. Most, but not all, of the underbody rails are available. The rear cross members that the suspension attaches to are not available. The very last one in the back is. There is a company, CMD, making a lot of the panels that rot out and designing more all the time.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
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Re: M151a2 questions

Postby Saberr » December 12th, 2017, 3:37 pm

I am sure it is an A2, because it has the trailing suspension and also it has the divots in the fenders for the composite lights. The only odd part is I believe it has an A.1 Grill, it has the circles for the turn signals in the lower Grill. Also I did check originally for rust and there was no issues the only rest I found that was cancerous was on the top where the top Bowl bolts in on one side. There was some as well in the engine compartment on the right hand side where the fender meets the firewall.

They're so loud that you have to wear ear muffs when doing top speed?.
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Re: M151a2 questions

Postby rickf » December 12th, 2017, 5:06 pm

That is what the military said in later years. They are noisy, they are not ear piercing, nowhere near Gamma goat territory. They are also not like a new Jeep wrangler. It is a 70's military vehicle so they are sparse and they are a bit noisy. I can talk to my wife while driving, granted I have to talk loud but I never have the doors on either and a lot of that noise is the NDCC tires. They put the engine and transmission on rubber mounts and then attach the driveshafts directly to the differentials that are mounted solid to the body, DUH! You will find the ride MUCH better than a M38 and also have more room in the drivers position than the 38. A lot more power that a M38 and it will cruise at 55 if you ask it to. It will reach 65-70 if you really push it.

On those front fenders, look at it from the front and tell me if there is a cut out between the fender and the grill or does the fender go straight across from the composite light? If you look at a few pictures of A2's you will immediately see what I am talking about if you have an early Ford A2.
Also, If you get a few pictures of it on here we can tell you exactly what you have. You can also email some pics to Ken the Muttguru with the Budd numbers and a pic of that tag and he will be able to give you a pretty close date of manufacture. I guarantee it is not 11/67.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
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Re: M151a2 questions

Postby Saberr » December 13th, 2017, 12:28 am

I'm not sure what your talking about, with a "cut out" in fendor, unless your talking about a1 straight vs a2 divot fender for the lights. Here's a front pic. Also some the tag pics, only these two were on it, i checked all the other places. LoL i do have to admit, the navy camo paint has grown on me :). Image Image Image Image

Also here are few other pics of why it confirms its an A2.
Image Image
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Re: M151a2 questions

Postby Horst » December 13th, 2017, 2:43 am

An A2 but with some older parts thrown at it. Someone might be able to post a picture of an early Ford A2, then you will be able to see what Rick was referring to. What is weird that you seem to have the vacuum lines for the wipers, an A2 is supposed to have electrical wipers and as such a mechanical fuel pump. Grille is of the A1 style as an A2 has the composite lights with turn and blackout marker lights integrated and no turn lights in the grille itself. Post more pictures, specifically of the engine bay and more overall body pictures, we will be able to give you a lot of hints. As an example, the fender reenforcement in your last picture with that welded on flat iron is something somebody build afterwards. So more I look at it, the more questions I actually have, like is there a rear differential at all ? Maybe just the angle of the photo. Please post another picture of where the rear trailing arms are attached.
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Re: M151a2 questions

Postby muttguru » December 13th, 2017, 5:05 am

Hello Saberr.

The vehicle is a second-series Ford-built M151A2 (the version with the cut-out front fender). The BUDD plate confirms that it is a Ford....unfortunately I can't make out the BUDD S/N # number so I cant estimate the date-of-delivery unless/until you let me know that number.
***Unfortunately, that diagnosis is wrong. It isn't a Ford M151A2 at all. It is in fact an AM General A2 from mid-1973 at the earliest. The BUDD plate is from an M151A1 and a previous owner has attached it with machine screws to the firewall. The BUDD plate probably came from the same M151A1 as the dash dataplate but who knows? Ken***


What I can tell you for definite is that the dash dataplate is from a Ford M151A1 (A1, not A2) showing what seems to be a "2R-series" as the registration. It doesn't belong on this vehicle.

Horst.... I think that vacuum hose is actually the water pipe that goes into the windshield washer tank.

Ken
Last edited by muttguru on December 14th, 2017, 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kind regards....
Ken

Always wanted - Details and pictures of M416 Trailer data plates & M151 data plates & body-tags for my research. Thanks!

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Re: M151a2 questions

Postby Horst » December 13th, 2017, 8:08 am

I am talking about the two hoses left and next to the instrument cluster. An A2 does not have any lines there. AFAIK the only line there is a vent line to the electric wiper motor in some very late models (mine does not have it)
Horst

1972 USMC M151A2 w/ROPS and M416
1962 M201 and trailer
1966 Pontiac GTO
1987 Suzuki Samurai
1987 911
1982 Ford E350 Cutaway Skoolie
Gone: 2xM35A2c, Unimog 404S, Hanomag AL28, DKW Munga
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Re: M151a2 questions

Postby muttguru » December 13th, 2017, 9:00 am

Horst wrote:I am talking about the two hoses left and next to the instrument cluster.


Horst....yes, I see it now. The picture on the screen doesn't show the whole photo....when I downloaded it and looked again, I can see the hoses and the wiper on/off switch attached to the dash. There's also a small off-cut of the hose on the passenger-side floor.

Now why would anyone fit an A2 with vacuum wipers? Unless the previous owner did not have access to an A2 windshield. Or the vehicle is made up of parts from both the A2 and the A1..... it does have an A1-type front grille.

Ken
Kind regards....
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Always wanted - Details and pictures of M416 Trailer data plates & M151 data plates & body-tags for my research. Thanks!

Contact address - - muttguru@aol.com

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Re: M151a2 questions

Postby rickf » December 13th, 2017, 12:39 pm

That extra piece that was welded all around the body side is very well welded so removing it is going to be a problem. You may just want to live with it. It is definitely made up of parts from both an A2 and an A1.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
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Re: M151a2 questions

Postby Saberr » December 13th, 2017, 12:53 pm

I am well aware that it has an a1 grill, thought i mentioned that in orig post. I do have a more pulled back pic of the dash but its at home. As far as i could figure it is an early ford a2 as well. The windshield was stollen a while ago, so i cant say anything about that. As for the extra welded on flat steel underneath, it was a hunting vehicle. This last owner had a welder put on 1/8 flat stock all around so when they off road and landed on a big rock, the body wouldn't get bent badly.
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Re: M151a2 questions

Postby rickf » December 13th, 2017, 2:37 pm

The grill and windshield are no big deal, there are plenty of those in the A2 version around. Unless you are planning on a first class restoration I would not even worry about the rails. If you really want them to look stock get a plasma cutter and run right along the edge and cut them flush with the body line and then grind the edge over rounded. Once painted it will be hard to notice. If it is only welded on the outside and not on the inside you could cut most of the weld off with the plasma cutter and then cut the rail into sections with a hacksaw but not into the body and band it back and forth on the weld until the weld breaks and then grind the weld down. That would be a LOT of work to do the entire vehicle. Guess it all depends on what your plans are for it.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
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Re: M151a2 questions

Postby Saberr » December 13th, 2017, 5:44 pm

Id be getting one for fun and usability. Kind of like the dual gas tanks and extra strength the rails give. Also neither mod is really noticable, so it keeps its looks. Thats why i had so many questions, trying to see how the down falls will affect usability. For my area i need to be able cruise at 60-65, which i was told a mutt with all its rubber band all tight will easily do. Heck i cruised my m38a1 at 55 with its top of 60 just fine ( with freeway tires, want safety and comfort). And since 60 percent of road use will be at the higher speeds im worried about loudness. Don't want to go deff or just be misserable all the ride.
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Re: M151a2 questions

Postby rickf » December 13th, 2017, 6:54 pm

You are not going to want to do 60-65 all day in any military vehicle. That will be foot planted solid to the floor and I will guess the engine will have a fairly short lifespan. It is a three main bearing, non balanced engine. They are very tough but you can only expect so much from them. If you need to cruise like that every day then you are better off getting a civilian Jeep. I find it very, very hard to believe you were traveling 60 MPH in a M38A1 with 5.38 gears!!! That calculates out to just shy of 4,000 rpm. But if you say so. :roll:
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
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