Marine vs Army m151's

[pharbor1941]

Other than the front bumper were there any other differences between the Marine and Army M151's?

[k8icu]

Well let's see. First the Marines (as far as I know) didn't use the straight 151 because the had the M422. Now the M151A1 had the front bumper. It also had rear corner brackets that bolted on giving lifting shackles much like the A2 has. The Marine 151s generally had the fording kit installed and no heater kit. The 151A2s eliminated the rear corner brackets since the lifting shackle was incorperated into the A2s, but had the fording kits installed.

I'm sure someone more knowledgable than I will add more information.

[moose53]

Marine jeeps had different hub covers, flat without the airlift rings the army & AF had....

Jim

[Cobra5]

Marine jeeps had different hub covers, flat without the airlift rings the army & AF had....

Jim

I guess that will be the one thing that will stand out on mine. I like the marine hub covers compared to the others.

[Bill, Idaho]

Mine is a 74, and I have the lift rings on the hubs. It was a Marine MUTT (and still is). Long front bumper, deep-fording kit.
Believe me..it was a Marine MUTT. Trust me.
I will say one of the first things I learned when I got my MUTT was anything and everything was possible. It's the ol' "never say never" thing.

[moose53]

true indeed Bill, especially when it involves the military. Nothing is ever an absolute, whenever we say this had it like this or that had it like that, we're talking general standards, there are always exceptions to every rule.

Jim

[BG6]

Mine is a 74, and I have the lift rings on the hubs.

Actually, those are not LIFT rings, those are tiedown points used when airlifting the MUTT in a plane.

Uncle Sam's Misguided Children ordered their MUTTs with corner shackles, which can be used for lifting the vehicle or tying it down, so they didn't want to pay for airlift hubs. A few got through now and then either due to supply issues, or when USMC placed a hurry-up order which AMG filled from inventory built for the Army (whose contract specs had enough slack in the delivery times to let the USMC and USAF contracts grab a few dozen to fight their tighter deliveries). It wasn't cost-effective to swap the hubs when they were already in enough of a hurry getting the front bumpers swapped out and sometimes running them back through the paint shop.

You will sometimes see USMC MUTTS with steering wheels showing AF blue where the Marine Green has worn thin.

[moose53]

yet if you look at the pictures from active service, when airlifted by sling mutts were usually lifted by the wheel hubs. When tied down in airlift aircraft, they were usually tied down by the body rings....

Jim

[Rainman]

During a railhead movement from Ft Hood to, at the time, Camp Irwin the tie down points were the wheel hubs, because it allows for the shock and spring suspension to still function and not jar the equipment too much. Tie it down at the corners and it defeats the vehicle's own suspension. Air drops also used the wheel hubs for the same reason. Only airlift I was ever involved in was with M561's and we suspended it from the chopper with the large rings provided at the top corners.
Rainman

[rickf]

yet if you look at the pictures from active service, when airlifted by sling mutts were usually lifted by the wheel hubs. When tied down in airlift aircraft, they were usually tied down by the body rings....

Jim

Don't forget the 15 second method. Two slings, just like those just advertised already attached to chopper. fly in loop one under front of mutt and one under back of mutt and gone! By the way Seabee, did you know Toptiger is in town next week?

[toptiger]

rick, seabee is safe this trip, chopper has been red Xed for annual maintenance. and i only bought one sling- stupid me.

[rickf]

I have the other sling.

Moose runs an airport, may have some chopper connections.........

[BG6]

yet if you look at the pictures from active service, when airlifted by sling mutts were usually lifted by the wheel hubs.

I can tell you from direct observation that this was high on the Really-Bad-Idea O-Meter.

The wheels rotate freely, and if there was any defect in the hooks small enough to fit the hubs, the twist of the ring against the hook was likely to start a cascade failure. First the bad hook fails, and this puts 1/4+ of the weight onto the opposite hook (across the axle), PLUS the added energy from the catastrophic failure and subsequent snap as the opposite hook took the strain. This causes the second hook to fail, leaving the entire 2500 lbs suspended from two hooks, again with the added energy of arresting the fall. As MUTTs were not issued Dumbo's Magic Flying Feather, results are predictable, and reportedly happened a number of times over the years.

Final tally:

1ea wrecked MUTT

5ea orders to courts-martial (one for each of the helo crew and one for the officer in charge of the unit which allowed the helo crew to "routinely" hook to the hubs)

1ea rapidly-photocopied notice to all aircrews that the practice was not to end, it HAD ended, with photos of the M151 manual showing the proper use of the hubs in airlift ops

1ea dunno-whether-to-laugh-or-hide memory, which comes back every year at the Reno Air Races, when I watch the NV NG help someone "park."

[moose53]

Actually, no hooks were used, lol.... small clevises were attached to the hubs, as attach points for the loops on the lifting straps. Once you lifted off the wheels shifted maybe a quarter turn and centered, and stayed that way til touchdown.



Ocassionally one did get dropped, you ended up with a really really short jeep lol, and I'm sure CYA ran rampant....

Jim

[Rainman]

Hey Moose,
I zoomed in on that picture as much as I could, and for the life of me can't tell what the straps on the trailer are attached to. Looks to me almost looks like a cover tiedown hook over the fender. Is that possible? No clevis attachment point there for sure.
Rainman