Marine vs Army m151's
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- Sergeant
- Posts: 63
- Joined: July 24th, 2009, 11:01 pm
Marine vs Army m151's
Other than the front bumper were there any other differences between the Marine and Army M151's?
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- 1st Sergeant
- Posts: 468
- Joined: December 8th, 2007, 11:13 pm
- Location: Cleveland Ohio
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Re: Marine vs Army m151's
Well let's see. First the Marines (as far as I know) didn't use the straight 151 because the had the M422. Now the M151A1 had the front bumper. It also had rear corner brackets that bolted on giving lifting shackles much like the A2 has. The Marine 151s generally had the fording kit installed and no heater kit. The 151A2s eliminated the rear corner brackets since the lifting shackle was incorperated into the A2s, but had the fording kits installed.
I'm sure someone more knowledgable than I will add more information.
I'm sure someone more knowledgable than I will add more information.
There is one nut on a M151 that is very difficult to remove.....
Re: Marine vs Army m151's
Marine jeeps had different hub covers, flat without the airlift rings the army & AF had....
Jim
Jim
Zigzag50, Northeast51, KC2QDZ
MVPA # 30032 G838.org
--------------------------------------
1971 G838-M151A2 1966 G857-M416
1968 G748-M101A1 1976 G748-M116A1
1990 MEP-701A
--------------------------------------
Real jeeps have horizontal grille slots
MVPA # 30032 G838.org
--------------------------------------
1971 G838-M151A2 1966 G857-M416
1968 G748-M101A1 1976 G748-M116A1
1990 MEP-701A
--------------------------------------
Real jeeps have horizontal grille slots
Re: Marine vs Army m151's
I guess that will be the one thing that will stand out on mine. I like the marine hub covers compared to the others.moose53 wrote:Marine jeeps had different hub covers, flat without the airlift rings the army & AF had....
Jim
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- Master Sergeant
- Posts: 324
- Joined: December 14th, 2007, 5:54 pm
- Location: Caldwell, Idaho
Re: Marine vs Army m151's
Mine is a 74, and I have the lift rings on the hubs. It was a Marine MUTT (and still is). Long front bumper, deep-fording kit.
Believe me..it was a Marine MUTT. Trust me.
I will say one of the first things I learned when I got my MUTT was anything and everything was possible. It's the ol' "never say never" thing.
Believe me..it was a Marine MUTT. Trust me.
I will say one of the first things I learned when I got my MUTT was anything and everything was possible. It's the ol' "never say never" thing.
Re: Marine vs Army m151's
true indeed Bill, especially when it involves the military. Nothing is ever an absolute, whenever we say this had it like this or that had it like that, we're talking general standards, there are always exceptions to every rule.
Jim
Jim
Zigzag50, Northeast51, KC2QDZ
MVPA # 30032 G838.org
--------------------------------------
1971 G838-M151A2 1966 G857-M416
1968 G748-M101A1 1976 G748-M116A1
1990 MEP-701A
--------------------------------------
Real jeeps have horizontal grille slots
MVPA # 30032 G838.org
--------------------------------------
1971 G838-M151A2 1966 G857-M416
1968 G748-M101A1 1976 G748-M116A1
1990 MEP-701A
--------------------------------------
Real jeeps have horizontal grille slots
Re: Marine vs Army m151's
Actually, those are not LIFT rings, those are tiedown points used when airlifting the MUTT in a plane.Bill, Idaho wrote:Mine is a 74, and I have the lift rings on the hubs.
Uncle Sam's Misguided Children ordered their MUTTs with corner shackles, which can be used for lifting the vehicle or tying it down, so they didn't want to pay for airlift hubs. A few got through now and then either due to supply issues, or when USMC placed a hurry-up order which AMG filled from inventory built for the Army (whose contract specs had enough slack in the delivery times to let the USMC and USAF contracts grab a few dozen to fight their tighter deliveries). It wasn't cost-effective to swap the hubs when they were already in enough of a hurry getting the front bumpers swapped out and sometimes running them back through the paint shop.
You will sometimes see USMC MUTTS with steering wheels showing AF blue where the Marine Green has worn thin.
Re: Marine vs Army m151's
yet if you look at the pictures from active service, when airlifted by sling mutts were usually lifted by the wheel hubs. When tied down in airlift aircraft, they were usually tied down by the body rings....
Jim
Jim
Zigzag50, Northeast51, KC2QDZ
MVPA # 30032 G838.org
--------------------------------------
1971 G838-M151A2 1966 G857-M416
1968 G748-M101A1 1976 G748-M116A1
1990 MEP-701A
--------------------------------------
Real jeeps have horizontal grille slots
MVPA # 30032 G838.org
--------------------------------------
1971 G838-M151A2 1966 G857-M416
1968 G748-M101A1 1976 G748-M116A1
1990 MEP-701A
--------------------------------------
Real jeeps have horizontal grille slots
Re: Marine vs Army m151's
During a railhead movement from Ft Hood to, at the time, Camp Irwin the tie down points were the wheel hubs, because it allows for the shock and spring suspension to still function and not jar the equipment too much. Tie it down at the corners and it defeats the vehicle's own suspension. Air drops also used the wheel hubs for the same reason. Only airlift I was ever involved in was with M561's and we suspended it from the chopper with the large rings provided at the top corners.
Rainman
Rainman
M151 World Land Speed Record Holder
Re: Marine vs Army m151's
Don't forget the 15 second method. Two slings, just like those just advertised already attached to chopper. fly in loop one under front of mutt and one under back of mutt and gone! By the way Seabee, did you know Toptiger is in town next week?moose53 wrote:yet if you look at the pictures from active service, when airlifted by sling mutts were usually lifted by the wheel hubs. When tied down in airlift aircraft, they were usually tied down by the body rings....
Jim
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
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- Colonel
- Posts: 1853
- Joined: December 6th, 2007, 9:39 pm
- Location: ~Heaven~Frostproof, Fla., Paris and Grasse france
Re: Marine vs Army m151's
rick, seabee is safe this trip, chopper has been red Xed for annual maintenance. and i only bought one sling- stupid me.
Last edited by toptiger on August 20th, 2009, 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Author M-151 MUTT, The Vietnam Jeep
Paper edition http://www.blurb.com/books/1646321
IOS ebook iBookstore: http://itunes.apple.com/us/book/id598605516
2 M151A2s, M416 trailer, M274A5 Mule,
Former Army Aviator, Bien Hoa, VN 1968-69
Mustang Gunship Platoon Commander
68th Assault Helicopter Company 'Top Tigers'
Central Florida and France
Paper edition http://www.blurb.com/books/1646321
IOS ebook iBookstore: http://itunes.apple.com/us/book/id598605516
2 M151A2s, M416 trailer, M274A5 Mule,
Former Army Aviator, Bien Hoa, VN 1968-69
Mustang Gunship Platoon Commander
68th Assault Helicopter Company 'Top Tigers'
Central Florida and France
Re: Marine vs Army m151's
I have the other sling.
Moose runs an airport, may have some chopper connections.........
Moose runs an airport, may have some chopper connections.........
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
Re: Marine vs Army m151's
I can tell you from direct observation that this was high on the Really-Bad-Idea O-Meter.moose53 wrote:yet if you look at the pictures from active service, when airlifted by sling mutts were usually lifted by the wheel hubs.
The wheels rotate freely, and if there was any defect in the hooks small enough to fit the hubs, the twist of the ring against the hook was likely to start a cascade failure. First the bad hook fails, and this puts 1/4+ of the weight onto the opposite hook (across the axle), PLUS the added energy from the catastrophic failure and subsequent snap as the opposite hook took the strain. This causes the second hook to fail, leaving the entire 2500 lbs suspended from two hooks, again with the added energy of arresting the fall. As MUTTs were not issued Dumbo's Magic Flying Feather, results are predictable, and reportedly happened a number of times over the years.
Final tally:
1ea wrecked MUTT
5ea orders to courts-martial (one for each of the helo crew and one for the officer in charge of the unit which allowed the helo crew to "routinely" hook to the hubs)
1ea rapidly-photocopied notice to all aircrews that the practice was not to end, it HAD ended, with photos of the M151 manual showing the proper use of the hubs in airlift ops
1ea dunno-whether-to-laugh-or-hide memory, which comes back every year at the Reno Air Races, when I watch the NV NG help someone "park."
Re: Marine vs Army m151's
Actually, no hooks were used, lol.... small clevises were attached to the hubs, as attach points for the loops on the lifting straps. Once you lifted off the wheels shifted maybe a quarter turn and centered, and stayed that way til touchdown.
Ocassionally one did get dropped, you ended up with a really really short jeep lol, and I'm sure CYA ran rampant....
Jim
Ocassionally one did get dropped, you ended up with a really really short jeep lol, and I'm sure CYA ran rampant....
Jim
Zigzag50, Northeast51, KC2QDZ
MVPA # 30032 G838.org
--------------------------------------
1971 G838-M151A2 1966 G857-M416
1968 G748-M101A1 1976 G748-M116A1
1990 MEP-701A
--------------------------------------
Real jeeps have horizontal grille slots
MVPA # 30032 G838.org
--------------------------------------
1971 G838-M151A2 1966 G857-M416
1968 G748-M101A1 1976 G748-M116A1
1990 MEP-701A
--------------------------------------
Real jeeps have horizontal grille slots
Re: Marine vs Army m151's
Hey Moose,
I zoomed in on that picture as much as I could, and for the life of me can't tell what the straps on the trailer are attached to. Looks to me almost looks like a cover tiedown hook over the fender. Is that possible? No clevis attachment point there for sure.
Rainman
I zoomed in on that picture as much as I could, and for the life of me can't tell what the straps on the trailer are attached to. Looks to me almost looks like a cover tiedown hook over the fender. Is that possible? No clevis attachment point there for sure.
Rainman
M151 World Land Speed Record Holder