Waking up a Texas M151A2

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Re: Waking up a Texas M151A2

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Re: Waking up a Texas M151A2

Postby rickf » November 1st, 2017, 7:28 am

Now you know why nobody has been tailgating you recently. :lol:
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
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Re: Waking up a Texas M151A2

Postby m3a1 » November 1st, 2017, 7:35 am

Too true!
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Re: Waking up a Texas M151A2

Postby m3a1 » November 11th, 2017, 7:41 pm

Ok, here's just a little more on the cause of the mysterious power drain that turned out to be brake lights. I said that the issue was with the adjustment on the rod connecting the switch and the brake pedal. Technically, that is true but as it turns out there was another issue that was the real reason for all this.

For some reason, my brake pedal is not returning to its fully neutral position. So, for now I am turning off my service lights when I'm away from the truck until I have a handle on the pedal issue. This may mean having to drop the pedals from the mount and check everything out, which is going to be a bit of a bother since I have a ROPS kit. When I put my new master cylinder in, I had the whole assembly out and it got cleaned and lubed so I'm very curious as to why things are hanging up at this point. Perhaps the cause is that the pedal's slack adjuster is out of adjustment. We shall see.

Anyway, if you are experiencing a mysterious power drain, have a look at your brake pedal first. If it's a little forward of where it ought to be when it's at rest, that just might be the cause of your troubles.

Cheers,
TJ
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Re: Waking up a Texas M151A2

Postby m3a1 » November 29th, 2017, 8:36 pm

So, I was scrounging around looking for the new carburetor for my halftrack (it's stored in a .50 cal can, and as you know, they all look the same :cry: ) but what did I find instead? Two sets of risers for the MG mount and a base from an M4 pedestal which was cut about 5" above the base plate. I was buying stuff while I was in Afghanistan so there's no telling what else I have squirreled away. I'm quite sure I don't have a proper M4 pedestal, so I was looking around for a suitable substitute for the M4 because I'm not dropping half a grand on what is essentially a metal tube and a cup just so I can go shoot off my truck.

What I DO have on hand is the correct M6 pedestal for a HMMWV. My first concern was adapting the base plate to the risers and it appears I can weld up the original mounting holes and cut the base plate down to the appropriate dimensions with little trouble. Since the base plate is quite simple, and removable, this isn't an irrevocable knock to the value of the pedestal.

The Second concern is the overall height. As I'm sure most of you are aware, the M4 pedestal has a removable riser to allow the MUTT's top to be installed. As it turns out, the M6 has a very tricksy extendable riser. It can be raised and lowered in the tube and secured to a variety of heights by means of a detent pin and frankly, I LOVE the idea of that option. Now, this doesn't get me out of the woods because, when fully stowed in the tube, the whole thing is just a bit too tall for having the top on. But, remove the pin and the retaining bolt, the whole thing comes out.

The M6 pedestal employs four support legs but I'm not firing a .50 off this thing...just a 1919 rebored to .308 so I'm sure I'm OK there.

Does anyone have any thoughts about this (aside from Rick's hatred for anyone willing to drill holes in an uncut, unarmed 1970 A2?) Am I missing anything?

Cheers,
TJ
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Re: Waking up a Texas M151A2

Postby rickf » November 29th, 2017, 9:11 pm

I always thought the HMMWV used a gun ring mount, not a pedestal? Of coarse I am a bit OLD to have seen the HMMWV in service. All the ones I see on the ranges next to my house have gun rings. Most of them now are sporting 40mm cannons?
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
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Re: Waking up a Texas M151A2

Postby m3a1 » November 30th, 2017, 7:21 pm

Yeah, some of the soft tops had a centrally mounted pedestal.
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Re: Waking up a Texas M151A2

Postby m3a1 » March 20th, 2018, 8:11 pm

FINALLY! Spring is in the air, when a young man's fancy turns to thoughts of.... ROCK-N-ROLL.

THAT'S RIGHT boys and girls....why waltz when you can ROCK-N-ROLL?!!

Here we have a Sabre Defense M6 pedestal with a manufacture date of 2003. Typically, these were found in HMMWVs. Why do I like this pedestal? It's height is adjustable. Pull the pin, slide it straight up to where you want it, re-pin it and you're ready to go.

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Modified base plate, from the original round disc, to the shoebox shape required for the MUTT's pedestal riser.

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Here is the bit to which the struts mount.

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Finally in but no struts as of yet. I have to make some!

Image
Last edited by m3a1 on April 13th, 2018, 12:18 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Waking up a Texas M151A2

Postby m3a1 » March 21st, 2018, 12:12 am

Mounting the pedestal. So here's how it went today..

First, I started out thinking that (1) I was going to have to make a reinforcing plate for below the floor and (2) that I was going to have to remove the drive shaft and (3) that I was also going to have to remove the exhaust to expose that center section of floor. With all of that, I was also trying to figure out how best to locate the mount.

So, I got under the truck and had a little look-see and found four conveniently placed and pretty substantial reinforcement L-brackets that looked suspiciously like they were there for just what I was getting into. These L-brackets attach by butting up to the top and side panels of the tunnel and I never gave them any notice before. So, with some careful measuring I went back up top and figured out not only did they line up perfectly with the mounting holes in the pedestal riser, closer inspection revealed four conveniently placed dimples in the floor, right at the optimal place for a bolt hole. Hmmmmm!

Now, I would not go so far as to say that every MUTT has these dimples. Mine is a bonafide 1970 Ford (and at this very moment, Rick is getting all ready to lambast me for drilling holes in my truck :wink: ) so these dimples may be limited to this particular run of trucks, or they may be on all of them. Ford has a reputation for "going off the reservation" when they think they're right about something and it wouldn't surprise me if they did this own their own accord. Either way, if you are considering mounting a pedestal riser, look for these dimples FIRST because, YES, they are the registers for your prospective bolt holes.

There IS a trick to this, though. If you have an original riser (or a perfect reproduction) you will find that all the bolt holes in it are 1/2" diameter.

Thus, a WARNING!

DO NOT DRILL HOLES in the floor of your truck that are centered on the dimple and that are 1/2" in diameter!!!

I'm going to repeat that for all you hard-heads and Attention Deficit-types out there..

DO NOT DRILL HOLES in the floor of your truck that are centered on the dimple and that are 1/2" in diameter!!!

If you do, you will be in a world of finless brown trout, everybody will laugh at you for not following simple instructions, they will point at you while you are wearing a funky paper hat and working at the serving line at Golden Corral and they will call you names behind your back, and then you will be welding up your big, stupid holes late into the evening until your eyes bleed. So, DON'T drill 1/2" holes!

Drill holes centered on the dimple that are 3/8" in diameter and you will be a happy camper. 'nuff said.

Especially on older trucks like mine, ones that have "been rode hard and put up wet" you will find that things are no longer quite perfect - a dent here, a ripple there and as a result there is a certain amount of wriggling these parts around so that when the pedestal base plate is bolted to the riser, everything lines up. So, be smart, use the 3/8" bolts and simply enjoy the extra wriggle room. I assure you, when everything is bolted down, even with 3/8" bolts,that riser and pedestal isn't going ANYWHERE.

All this business took me HOURS to do but now that I (and you) know what's what, I'm betting I could install one in about 20 minutes, tops. I haven't gotten to the struts yet and I will have to make them up from scratch as the M6 pedestal is just a bit different than the "proper" M4 arrangement. Happily, while I was underneath, I saw another couple L-brackets in the back that, at a glance, look like they might just be the correct terminus for the struts.

I took the MUTT out for a strut tonight and found the pedestal to be rather prominent but not nearly the trouble I had heard and anticipated it would be. Its presence does make the MUTT seem more purposeful and I like that. The real trouble will come with the installation of the stabilizing struts which will greatly intrude into the rear cabin space but I need those struts because I am actually going to shoot off this platform. Happily, my only back seat passengers seem to be our two dogs and I know they will always find a way in.

I do have some very good news and that is, even when fully assembled the M6 pedestal fits conveniently under the roof even when it's warm and saggy (some 3-4" below the top) and the only consideration I feel I will have to give it will be to create a round disc with a puck that centers in the pedestal socket so as to better distribute the weight of the occasional rainwater that might gather there and cause the roof to sag even more. Do I like it? Heck YEAH, I like it! It's big, it's bad and it's in your face and I can't wait to put a gun up.

Image

Cheers,
TJ
Last edited by m3a1 on April 24th, 2018, 6:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Waking up a Texas M151A2

Postby rickf » March 21st, 2018, 8:46 am

Spoiler alert! That is exactly what those dimples are for, to locate the pedestal mount. NOW, That said, I was once told by a very hardened old sergeant that they would always rip out the mount and drill new holes and move it back because if you have to shoot towards the rear where are you going to put your arse whilst aiming the gun? Very good point, there is nowhere to stand if you need to shoot anywhere from 120 degrees and further towards the back. The first time I jumped into one with the mount in it with my height and long arms I wailed the mount with my right elbow and at that time I swore I would NEVER nave one in mine!
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
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Re: Waking up a Texas M151A2

Postby m3a1 » March 21st, 2018, 12:26 pm

If you're having to shoot towards the rear, you're probably better off getting the heck out of Dodge, rather than standing around shooting at things! :lol: But as you can see, the ROPS is the real problem with the whole arrangement but we're going to have a lot of fun with it and I'll report back to everyone on how that goes.
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Re: Waking up a Texas M151A2

Postby m3a1 » March 22nd, 2018, 9:08 pm

If you give a mouse a cookie.....

he's gonna want a glass of milk....

and since we now have a pedestal....

we need a machine gun!

So here's a very old relic I've had laying around for forever. I received this monster in three pieces and the receiver was welded up like there would be no tomorrow. I did some work on it (like reattaching the barrel but was so dismayed at it's condition, I simply stuck it in a corner and there it has sat for something like 7 years! It rusted up pretty badly and last night I laid on the Ospho and let it sit overnight. This is what you find after an overnight application. Totally gacked and gawd awful. I like Ospho but frankly, I'm not sure the cleanup is worth the trouble. So, after a quick once over with the wire wheels, I whipped out the small sandblasting pot, arranged a place to blast and had at it. Quick, down and dirty.

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The previous guy really took the gloves off with this one and just carved it all up. So much so that I felt the best way to hide most of the sins was to skin the really bad spots with JB Quik Weld.

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Happy to say that I made some inroads into this project some time ago so the top cover and the spade grips were already done.

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Some zealot took a gouge and burned a hole in the barrel and then dumped a pretty substantial weld in there. I was going to leave the irregularity on the outside of the barrel (for inquiring minds) but found it so objectionable I went back, laid on the JB Weld and refinished it...hence the wet primer in this photo. As you can see, this puppy is pretty well gutted but, it's still 65-1/8 inches of awesomeness!

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Getting the barrel support back on (the heavy perforated fixture at the front of the receiver) was something of an adventure. The barrel had been cut beneath the barrel support and I did a darned good job welding it back on but be off one tenth of one degree and that barrel support isn't going to be happy about it. So, with some very judicious use of a drill mounted slap disc, I made juuuuuust enough room for it to go on. Of course the threads at the front of the trunnion and the inside of the barrel support had paint on them. All that had to come off because it is so finely machined. Threading this back on was NOT a job for the weak-wristed!

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This was that Ah-Hah! moment for me. It's finally starting to look like something! Yes, there are many, many sins (not the least of which is the front and rear sights are missing) but sitting up high on an equilibrator mount, I'm sure most folks will forgive me, if they even notice.

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Back in black! We have the first Hot Rod Nite of the year this weekend and my MUTT will be haut couture because, as you know, black lends a touch of class to everything!

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Cheers,
TJ
Last edited by m3a1 on April 13th, 2018, 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Waking up a Texas M151A2

Postby rickf » March 23rd, 2018, 8:21 pm

Where the hell are the sights? :roll: :roll: :roll: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
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Re: Waking up a Texas M151A2

Postby m3a1 » March 23rd, 2018, 8:42 pm

Heck, Rick! You don't need sights on this! It don't SHOOT! They're probably sitting in a bucket under the workbench in the previous owner's shop!

Started the day with the simplest task - taking the top off, dropping the bows (which don't play well with the ROPS) and searching for the strut anchor hole registers. That didn't take long. The equilibrator mount is far heavier than the simple yoke. I have the yoke but I don't have the travel lock or any of the other kit so the equilibrator mount will have to do. The truth is, the equilibrator keeps the gun level without any effort and that may be the best thing for a car show because that big fifty is just about the right height to conk someone on the head if the barrel dips.

Image

I ran over to Home Depot and grabbed some 1" electrical conduit (I'll remove the galvanizing later or find a primer that will bond to it) and set about making the struts. The conduit has a rather thin wall but it is tough stuff and is strong enough to take a bend from my hydraulic pipe bender and it supports the pedestal in fine style. This is a good time to recommend the Harbor Freight pipe bender. It is a wondrous machine for very little money. I've had it for almost 20 years and it still works great.

I had some junk pipe that already had the beginnings of a bend in it so I used that to determine what the correct bend would be to go from my pedestal to the dimples in the floor. Then it was just a matter of determining the correct length (and allowed some extra, just in case) figuring top dead center and flattening the ends (I used the press for that) and drilling the holes at the correct spots and then cutting off whatever was too long. With the holes drilled for where each attached to the pedestal it was a simple matter to figure out precisely where the holes for the floor went. It sounds complex but really isn't all that complicated. I'm very satisfied with the result.

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We were racing the sunset to finish this up and didn't quite make it. The rear securement pin for the gun won't go in! Remember I mentioned how badly chewed this gun was? Well they got it reassembled almost correctly but it is just a teeny tiny bit off so you know what I'll be doing tomorrow! This gun will never fire another round so I'll simply bore out that rear hole one size over and all will be well.

I must say, I like the look. It sure changes the appearance of this homely little truck and I am really looking forward to bringing something new and different to the car show tomorrow evening!

Image

Cheers,
TJ
Last edited by m3a1 on April 13th, 2018, 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Waking up a Texas M151A2

Postby m3a1 » March 24th, 2018, 10:01 pm

Well, the MUTT received a terrific response at the car show. Because this was the first one of this year, the place was a mad house and with all the great stuff that was being shown, for people to find time to look over the MUTT was quite a compliment despite the usual people who insisted it was an old Willys. But even that is a great opener for conversation. Surprisingly, the 50 was really only the cherry on top because the gear heads were far more interested in the truck itself, which is a testament to their mania and this being Texas, I guess having another big gun around just ain't no big thing.

Observations -

The riser is the perfect size to accommodate the standard size 50 cal ammo can which slides in beneath it quite nicely. With the heat that is always present there, it just might be the perfect place to keep hot food hot though I would never suggest that anyone try to cook on painted surfaces (and do I really need to mention that?) but as a warmer, it's so goooood! :P

Driving with that big gun overhead first feels somewhat like sitting under the Sword of Damocles but the struts (which are an absolute necessity) do a fine job of keeping everything just where it should be and there is little to worry about, especially with the M25 equilibrator mount which keeps the gun up and level.

If you are contemplating putting a pedestal on your truck you MUST address the issue of struts. Do not think for a moment that you can get along without them. Even an unloaded pedestal wants to wobble which is hard on your truck. The floor reinforcements are simply not designed to carry all the stress by themselves.

Having all that weight up high seems to have no effect on the truck during normal driving. It would if you drive like Mario Andretti, I suppose.

Mounting and dismounting that big 50, which weighs in at around 80lb without the mount, is a two-man job so if you intend to go this route, you better have someone who is healthy and willing to help.

As we all know, a gun mount eats up a great deal of usable space in the truck. Furthermore, the business of being in and around the whole thing with the ROPS makes moving across the passenger compartment difficult to say the least. Imagine lifting weights while climbing all over a jungle gym and you'll pretty much be able to accurately imagine what this is all about. But, I am 6'0" and I drive with the seat back and I haven't noticed any problems with shifting, or anything else for that matter.

Satisfaction rating - 10 out of 10! I'm lovin it!
Cheers,
TJ
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Re: Waking up a Texas M151A2

Postby halftracknut » March 25th, 2018, 5:25 pm

The pedestal also makes a great headbanger so if you go 4 wheeling wear your helmet..
slowest mutt east of the missippi..
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