M38 - Nothing at all to do with M151s

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Re: M38 - Nothing at all to do with M151s

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Re: M38 - Nothing at all to do with M151s

Postby m3a1 » September 27th, 2017, 7:27 pm

fergrn37 wrote:You like the feel of the keyboard on you fingers, don't ya?


It's raining. I'm stuck inside. It's like being in time out. :(

And no, it's not corn head lube. Something better!!
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Re: M38 - Nothing at all to do with M151s

Postby m3a1 » September 29th, 2017, 9:45 am

To get you started, here is an easy read on grease basics.
http://machinerylubrication.com/Read/1352/grease-basics

What I have selected for lubrication for the steering knuckles of our M38 Jeep is - Lucas Oil X-TRA Heavy Duty Grease about $4/14.5 oz tube

Lucas Oil Products Inc. Makes some interesting claims for this product. One of the most recognizable is that it is formulated to NLGI grade 2 (essentially the consistency of soft peanut butter.) They promote this product in this way - "Lucas X-TRA Heavy Duty Grease is a high quality polyuria grease excelling high temperature applications. It meets or exceeds OEM "Lube for Life" requirements and should last two to four times longer than conventional grease... is specifically designed to: Resist slinging out of fast moving parts, Resist washing out of steering components on wet roads, Resist melting a high temperatures up to 560 degrees Fahrenheit (dropping point), Resist "squeezing out" under heavy loads (Shear stability- One measure of a lubricant’s protective value is its ability to withstand shearing under pressure. Shear stability describes a lubricant’s ability to resist a decrease in viscosity due to exposure to mechanical loads), Maintain a constant film of protection even under irregular maintenance schedules, Good in cold weather; Exceeds performance requirements of John Deere, Deutz, Case-IH, New Holland and Massy Ferguson.

Specs -
http://www.bylucasoil.com/spec/x-tra-heavy-duty-grease
https://lucasoil.com/pdf/TDS_XtraHDGrease.pdf

How does this product do with soft or "yellow" metals? Because there are two bronze bushings present I wanted an answer on that - (TM refers to them as bearings in that they support and guide the axle shafts at either end of the axle universal joint). ASTM International proscribes a copper strip corrosion test (D-4048) with results categorized from the production of slight tarnish, to moderate tarnish, to dark tarnish, to actual corrosion. This is relevant because copper is a predominant alloy in bronze and brass. This product tested at level 1B meaning it would produce a slight tarnish. The 1B result is the final and highest level in slight tarnish category, the next category being moderate tarnish. My chemist said this should be perfectly suitable in this regard.

Because it doesn't use soaps as thickeners, such as in traditional greases, this extends the useful life of the product.

You will find the term "cone penetration" coming up again and again in the discussions of grease. This has nothing to do with tapered roller bearing or "cone-type" bearings. "The cone penetration method employs a weighted cone that is dropped into a fixed-size volume of grease for a defined time period. The depth that the cone is able to penetrate the grease is used to rate the grease’s consistency with a scale developed by the National Lubricating Grease Institute (NLGI)."

For an interesting read on this, see -
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Rea ... onsistency

Finally, as with almost all polyurea greases, Lucas Oil X-TRA Heavy Duty Grease didn't do well in the category of getting thicker with the application of heat or stress. It is just really not how polyurea greases work. That said, it remains stable up to its drop (melting) point and stability is, perhaps, a better option.

So, I'm finally satisfied and now know more about grease than I ever wanted to know. If you are using something different and you are satisfied with the results, then you have also made the right choice.

Cheers,
TJ
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Re: M38 - Nothing at all to do with M151s

Postby rickf » September 29th, 2017, 11:00 am

What about Molybdenum Disulfide grease? The same thing used in CV joints? It does not get any slimier than that. Stands up to high speed and high pressure and high temperature, not like you are going to see high temps in these front ends.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
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Re: M38 - Nothing at all to do with M151s

Postby m3a1 » September 29th, 2017, 4:21 pm

Good stuff as well. There's no doubt about it.

Initially, I was leaning quite heavily toward Mobile1 but as I learned more about all of this stuff, I wanted to rule out the use of calcium and lithium based soap thickeners and those lubricants with only a light tack which is what Mobile 1 has.

Remember, I wanted a fire-and-forget lubricant and I'm running parts that are, by the book, probably out of spec. So I wanted something that would coat these surfaces and stick, which leads to far less squeeze-out at that is going to be highly beneficial for keeping these worn parts going for a much longer time.

True that the drop point of over 500 degrees is far and away more than we needed here (they use the Lucas in steel mills!) so that large number really had no influence on my decision making process.
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Re: M38 - Nothing at all to do with M151s

Postby rickf » September 29th, 2017, 7:06 pm

You sound like a Lucas salesman.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
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Re: M38 - Nothing at all to do with M151s

Postby m3a1 » September 29th, 2017, 8:32 pm

Nah. I really don't care what everybody else is using. Not a bit. My decisions are based upon what I need and want. Which is the whole point, really.
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Re: M38 - Nothing at all to do with M151s

Postby m3a1 » October 1st, 2017, 11:17 pm

And speaking of lubrication.....!

These came my way this weekend and I picked them up for a song. What I have here is a matched set of Gilbert & Barker 45 gallon bulk oil dispensers. Despite a lot of rust, some of the paint remains. The tank was green and the pump and fittings were orange.

A little history on the manufacturer - Gilbert and Barker later became more commonly known as GILBARCO around about 1935. They actually changed their company name to Gilbarco in 1965 and at present they are known as Gilbarco Veeder-Root specializing in, among other things, point-of-purchase fuel dispensers. Next time you stop for gas, have a look at the pump's manufacturer. You are probably using a Gilbarco pump.

These bulk oil dispensers were in use before quart cans of oil and self-service became popular. Usually located out by the pumps for convenience, gas jockeys would place an open top oil can with a spout or a flexible tube on the large cast iron lid at the top of the tank. In doing so, they would automatically be pushing the spring loaded return spout of the tank out of the way. To fill the oil can, the jockey would crank the handle backward and forward drawing oil up from the tank thereby dispensing it, to be measured, into the oil can. When he removed it, the return spout would follow the oil can, motivated by pressure from the return spring and it would stop beneath the spigot. In this way, any oil that dripped out of the spigot would find its way back into the tank.

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The large lid at the top of the tank was equipped with a removable strainer so that any oil that was unused, could be returned to the tank through the strainer where it was swept of debris. Some lids were specially cast with the name of the brand of oil. Gilbert and Barker also provided padlocks marked "G&B" which may or may not have actually been produced by another manufacturer. In any case, at day's end both the lid and the pump were secured with their own padlock to prevent theft.

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A simple dipstick was provided as a means of determining how much oil was in the tank. The dipstick enters the top of the tank through a raised area at the top of the tank. Because these tanks were very often kept outside the station they were subjected to all kinds of weather. The purpose for this raised area was to keep water from entering the tank at the dipstick hole. What is missing from these tanks is whatever cap or device that was attached to the top of the dipstick. Because no tanks that are still around seem to have that device, I'm guessing that it may have been something like a brass knob with a relieved area or escutcheon.at the bottom so as to nest over the raised area. Brass fittings always seem to be scavenged from things like this which would explain why all these seem to have disappeared with such regularity. Lubester brand tanks all appear to be equipped with a knob and escutcheon on their dipsticks. For now, what I intend to use as a substitute are several caps from tiki lamps (similar to the caps of a smudge pot). They cover the raised area perfectly. If anyone knows what these G&B caps/knobs actually look like, please, let me know.

Image

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Re: M38 - Nothing at all to do with M151s

Postby Horst » October 2nd, 2017, 3:02 am

nice find !
Horst

1972 USMC M151A2 w/ROPS and M416
1962 M201 and trailer
1966 Pontiac GTO
1987 Suzuki Samurai
1987 911
Gone: 2xM35A2c, Unimog 404S, Hanomag AL28, DKW Munga
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Re: M38 - Nothing at all to do with M151s

Postby rickf » October 2nd, 2017, 8:18 am

Now you can start buying oil buy the 55 gallon drum and putting it in them. I was surprised to find that buying buy the drum is not really any cheaper than by the gallon anymore. I was going to buy a 55 gallon drum of 15W-40 but it was going to cost me only about 15 dollars less then buying by the 1 gallon and 2 1/2 gallon containers. And that was a wholesale price at that. Gas stations are not making a lot on oil on an oil change. At least not on brand name oil that is.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
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Re: M38 - Nothing at all to do with M151s

Postby m3a1 » October 2nd, 2017, 9:06 am

Happily, I don't need large volumes of oil around here, Rick!

The tanks are still holding (which is to say they don't leak), and there are kits still available to replace the seals in the pump but, I think we'll just keep them around as collectibles. This old couple has been "married" to one another for a VERY long time and I certainly won't be the one to split them up. You can see evidence that they sat next to each other in the surface of the tanks. As ownership goes, two is always better than one, particularly when they have a history with one another.

Here's the big question. I got these for a stupid low price from a guy who was in the mood to sell. They look far heavier than they are and I'm sure most people didn't want the burden of moving them. Their loss, my gain. We brought them home on the roof of the Suburban with no trouble. Anyway, were I to flip them I would stand to make a very tidy profit which is money I could put into my son's Jeep.

Refurbishing them to the "as new" quality is always problematic because the people who collect these are the ones who want to select the color and the brand. So, if I went with the original green and orange, I'd be turning away all the folks who prefer other colors.

If I keep them, I was thinking of doing a makeover in some early version of OD with some appropriate stenciling because I'm reasonably sure the military would have had these in fixed-site motor pool maintenance and that would kind of fit in with what we do around here.

Thoughts, anyone?

Cheers,
TJ
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Re: M38 - Nothing at all to do with M151s

Postby rickf » October 2nd, 2017, 1:16 pm

I don't know if they would have had them or just huge containers with spouts, which is more likely. A military motor pool was dealing with hundreds of gallons a day and those tanks would have been more of a hindrance than a help.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
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Re: M38 - Nothing at all to do with M151s

Postby Husker » October 2nd, 2017, 4:27 pm

My buddy's motor pool just has a sort of spot rig that goes on a regular 55 gallon drum with a long hose
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Re: M38 - Nothing at all to do with M151s

Postby m3a1 » October 2nd, 2017, 5:02 pm

Yeah, I suppose you're right Rick. Still, I may just paint em up OD anyhoo. :lol:
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Re: M38 - Nothing at all to do with M151s

Postby rickf » October 2nd, 2017, 5:19 pm

I know I used to see the mobile lube trailers for sale at G/L years ago. Buddy of mine had a fully functional one. Did oil, grease and gear oil along with air which is what powered it. The reels has like 50 feet of hose or more on them. Most of those were bought up by big contractors that could take them out in the field to the equipment instead of bringing the equipment in to a spot where a service truck could get to it.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
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Re: M38 - Nothing at all to do with M151s

Postby m3a1 » October 3rd, 2017, 8:57 am

Well sure...but I didn't buy these for anything other than their nostalgia value. Yesterday, I did find one was still making pressure! I was fiddling around with the pump handle and it was wheezing at the spout! Darn it! Now I figure I gotta buy new seals and get em both working. If I don't, it'll bother me and I won't sleep well at night.
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