M38 - Nothing at all to do with M151s

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m3a1
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Re: M38 - Nothing at all to do with M151s

Unread post by m3a1 » September 10th, 2017, 8:59 pm

Well, yes and no. They welded a very Bubba-looking mount for the alternator atop the generator mount which is, happily, still very much intact. That's as close as we come to that. Naturally, the alternator pulley isn't properly lined up with the other pulleys so I'm going to have to sort that out too. I think these sorts of things are most amazing bit about this truck. There are so many, MANY crimes and yet, throwing all caution out the window, they made it work.

Is this a testament to farm-boy engineering, or to the hardiness of these little trucks and their ability to keep going when thoroughly worn out, or just plain, dumb luck? The truck is, quite literally, a bucket of bolts but we're going to turn it around...not to any specific level of perfection, but to a much higher level of mechanical craftsmanship. Like my M151A2, we're taken a throughly abused machine and making it useful and, while it's not going to be pretty, it will be dependable and safe to drive again.

I regret not pulling a compression test while I had it all bolted up but we can get back to that later. I'm pretty sure the old oil smelled of gasoline, which concerns me but there are so many fish to fry at this moment, we'll just concentrate on sorting out brakes and peripherals before going whole hog on the engine. If it comes down to it, I have a fully rebuilt Go-Devil sitting on the shelf which can go into this truck while I dive into sorting this mill out.

Cheers,
TJ

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Re: M38 - Nothing at all to do with M151s

Unread post by m3a1 » September 11th, 2017, 9:41 pm

Thanks go out to G838's very own xloflyr who provided my son with three good used tubes, gratis, for 7:00 x16s. Having these means we are no longer going to have to air up the tires on the M38 every three minutes when we want to move it. Thank you, Dave. You're THE MAN!

Update - Today we didn't do too much but what we did do, really counted. The kid was in school, so I made the long drive and visited with the former owner of the M38 to bring him up to speed on where we're at on the M38 project. I'm sure seeing his truck in pieces was something of a shock for him. He provided me with some of the papers that this truck has accumulated over the years. Mostly just old registrations and such but one important document confirms what I suspected. The radiator was indeed refreshed in 2011 and as little use as this truck has seen, I'm fairly sure it's gonna be OK for our use which is a big savings for my son's zero-balance budget. He also gave us some of the old street tires that used to be on the truck. They are tube-type bias ply and are far better than the rotted tires we have on the back axle so we're going to swap them onto the truck.

My son is interested in taking his project to the car show next Saturday, so having tires that actually hold air (thanks again, Dave) is certainly going to help. Likely as not, we'll have to bolt that horrid tow bar back on... :roll: ...and we'll put that grille back on. I'm betting a project-in-the-works is going to draw a lot of attention because it's not something one usually sees there. Should be fun!

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Re: M38 - Nothing at all to do with M151s

Unread post by m3a1 » September 12th, 2017, 3:22 pm

Spent the entire morning dealing with the M38 and getting it ready for the car show. It is now officially a "roller." I just had the rear tires swapped out for something that is actually round, made of rubber, and holds air (unlike what was on there before) :roll: and, Oh BOY, does it roll sweetly! Without the power pack, and with new rear bearings and the brakes backed off I can actually move it, by myself, with one hand. Amazing. It took three strong, determined men to move it when we first brought it home.

So, along with receiving new tires (which are actually its tires from many years ago) I power-washed the heck out of this buggy today. In doing so, I uncovered a lot of the original paint and even a TP stenciling inside the rear wheel house. I re-installed the front grille, unloaded all the parts we've been piling in the tub, and gave it a quick bath. Quite a transformation. Well now, it's beginning to look like little Timmy is actually going to be able to drive Lassie over to Camp Runamok after all. :P

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All this time I've had a nagging feeling that I've seen this Jeep somewhere, before. This explains it! It's been on my shelf for years. :D

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Last edited by m3a1 on April 12th, 2018, 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: M38 - Nothing at all to do with M151s

Unread post by Mark » September 12th, 2017, 3:50 pm

I have to say thanks for your posting, it was interesting/informative,
mark


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Re: M38 - Nothing at all to do with M151s

Unread post by m3a1 » September 12th, 2017, 4:41 pm

Thanks, Mark. We've a long way to go on this project and very little money to spend. Much of this is about teaching the kid that DIY will take you a long ways on a project, but not all the way. That, and just having some fun with it. It'll be a sad day for him when we consider it "done".

I'm betting this will draw a ton of interest at the car show....warts and all...and with that will come a strong motivation for my son to stay with it because this is his first time at this sort of thing. Like a elephant sandwich, you take it one bite at a time....or choke on it.

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Re: M38 - Nothing at all to do with M151s

Unread post by m3a1 » September 15th, 2017, 6:43 pm

At long last, I've built myself an all weather work bench since I do almost all of my work outside. It looks a little strange but I made it out of materials and stuff I had on hand and it's super strong and lightweight.

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So what we have here is the T90 transmission and the Dana Spicer 18 transfer case. We'll be splitting this up and doing a reseal all around because right now it's really only a high speed oil distribution system that's bad for the environment. Naughty, NAUGHTY transfer case!

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Yup...that's a weld....but it's a good weld! I'm betting this was mated to that bell housing when the accident happened.

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Well, THAT's worn out!

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That's a throughly soaked brake. This output shaft is one of the primary sources of leakage.

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Hey look! Spring has sprung!

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In other news, I had a fella come by today with some goodies he was looking to unload on someone...namely me. WooHOO! Free stuff!

Here's a WWII practice bomb he gave me. I absolutely love stuff like this and there's a very neat story behind it. It was discovered during a structure fire. Seeing it, the fire department skedaddled and evacuated a whole city block. The military was called in and found literally hundreds of these at the site! As it turned out, the owner had constructed walls by stacking crates of surplus practice bombs and plated those crates over with plywood. Building codes in Anchorage, Alaska? Nah! Not so much! :lol:

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And something I'd never seen before...Alfred E. Neuman stenciled on an ammo can! What, ME worry? I don't know the story behind that but I bet it's a good one.

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Last edited by m3a1 on April 12th, 2018, 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: M38 - Nothing at all to do with M151s

Unread post by m3a1 » September 16th, 2017, 5:54 pm

We are taking the Jeep to the Hot Rod Nite car show! Got no motor, no transmission, no transfer case, no seats, no gas tank, no headlights, and a big honkin empty hole in the floor where the mechanical stuff happens! This is gonna be soooooo gooooooood!

He's a Happy Camper! Miles of smiles. The M38 gets great smilage and smiles is what this is really all about. People showed lots of interest in the Jeep project! However, I must add that the MUTT has a much higher CDI Factor (chicks dig it), owing largely to the fact that the MUTT actually has seats. Women seem to be practical that way. :lol:

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There were a lot of fellas drooling over his Jeep and looking kind of jealous.

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The kid can't seem to get off the truck! Are there magnets in his pants?

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Life is so much better with back tires that actually hold air!

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Last edited by m3a1 on April 12th, 2018, 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: M38 - Nothing at all to do with M151s

Unread post by JeepMagician » September 17th, 2017, 11:58 pm

The Dana 18 T-cases are kinda easy to rebuild. And parts easy to get as well.

If you need some parts try out Quarter Ton Military. I worked for them a year rebuilding jeeps and still do on the side. If you need some other parts like the welded piece or bell housing he may be able to help you there too!

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Re: M38 - Nothing at all to do with M151s

Unread post by m3a1 » September 18th, 2017, 8:54 am

Terrific! Thanks for the input.

I've been watching some tutorials and it looks to be a very straightforward job, though I have absolutely no previous experience with these. It should be fun and entertaining. I'm primarily interested in resealing it though I'll be looking hard at those big bearings. Everyone will get to have a look when I get into it as I'll be taking plenty of pictures as always.

Actually, I have high hopes for that big weld. It certainly looks good and I doubt my son and I will find ourselves doing any really serious rock crawling with it so I think we're going to be OK there. The bell housing welds were also good but since I have another bell housing, we'll be swapping that out.

Cheers,
TJ

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Re: M38 - Nothing at all to do with M151s

Unread post by m3a1 » September 18th, 2017, 3:42 pm

Ok, now that all the hullabaloo of the car show is behind us, it's time to roll up the ol' sleeves once again!

Start the day with tidying up the workplace with a leaf blower. It's that season again!

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Today, we are getting into the front hubs. (author's note - I won't get this particular project wrapped up until APRIL 2018!)

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Check out the crazy routing of that brake line and hose! Stuff like that makes me nuts.

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After chocking the rear wheels, we loosen the front lug nuts and bump them back down to just snug, one at a time, just to make sure they're free. Then jack up the front and put the whole shebang on jack stands. Then remove the front wheels and the brake drums. Don't ask me what those flat washer-looking things are at the base of the lugs, because I don't know!

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This is how I started. Keep in mind, I am working without a tech manual and without time spent watching tutorials on Youtube (which is a very good resource, by the way). I'm just getting in there with what knowledge I have gained from working on other vehicles of similar vintage. This hub cup was a double-compound-24-karat-gold-plated booger to remove. Pressure with the screw driver and a gentle tapping, around and around, over and over and I finally got it off. Now, there are several schools of thought when it comes to these old trucks. If you're having as much trouble as I was, it was either installed wrong, or you're doing it wrong, or the part is wrong, or damaged in some way. The M-series of vehicles were designed with ease of repair high on the list of things the military required.

Furthermore, if you have two sides to do, don't attempt to jump back and forth between sides, making the same mistakes over and over. Learn from one side and the other side will be easier!

Driver's side - the hard way!

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So after removing the first cup and flange the hard way, I realized that I need not have gone to all the trouble of taking the cup off first. So on the other side, I took the flange off with the cup still on, laid it face down on a lunette eye, got a dowel rod and tapped the cup off which took about three seconds. SO much easier!

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Let's look over a few pieces and discuss the process of examining them for problems and maybe even how best to clean them up a little bit. Here are the flanges. I degreased these and put them on the wire wheel. I much prefer sandblasting but to tell you the truth, a good effort at the wire wheel also produces excellent results.

Before..
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After..
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Mmmmm! Shiny!
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Flanges always seem to get a lot of abuse. I've always imagined this one dude, whom I've named Army Guy Steve. All Army Guy Steve does, all day, every day, is run around with a five pound maul and hammer on flanges. Here is the result of Army Guy Steve and his big F-ing hammer. Not such a big deal, really, until the displaced metal interferes with a flange's ability to properly mate with a hub. See the shadow cast by the displaced metal? Now I'm going to have to make that surface flat again before reinstalling it. Curse you, Army Guy Steve!

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And now, the easy, old school way of removing the inner bearing and seal. After removing the outer bearing, thread the nut back on so that all threads are engaged and give the hub a good, firm tug...or two. :wink: It will pull off and leave that inner bearing and seal behind. Slick, huh?

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And now, the brake assemblies come off. First, loosen the brake line from the wheel cylinder using.....(we've discussed it before!)...a LINE WRENCH! Once it's loose, you can switch over to a regular open end wrench. Remember, if you don't have at least a few line wrenches, you ain't no kind of mechanic!
Six bolts hold the brake assembly and spindle onto the steering knuckle housing. They are through and through, meaning the threaded hole for these bolts is open to the inside of the knuckle. These bolts are fine threads but there is some small possibility that grease can migrate into the bolt hole, thus it is especially important that these bolts, when reinstalled, have a clean bed of threads to mate with, a good lock washer and perhaps even some thread locker. Almost ALL of the lock washers I've taken off during this phase are flat as pancakes and no good to anyone...but hey, they're 67 years old!

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These spindles are ready to come off. In fact, there's nothing holding them on at the moment except a little interference fit.

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While you're working, it's easy to just start throwing parts everywhere. Don't. Be persistently organized.

Left is on the left. Right is on the right. Same with the stacks of nuts, washers, bearings and seals. The fact is, most of this stuff, when new, is interchangeable from side to side, but old parts sometimes wear in together and other times, knowing what came from where will help you to track down a problem that affects several parts - parts that just might have to be replaced. So, for now it is 'best practice' to keep each side's parts separated.

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Whereas, with these brakes, there is no right, or left. I squirted the shoe adjusters with PB Blaster before stopping for lunch. We'll soon have them torn down.

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Last edited by m3a1 on April 13th, 2018, 10:21 am, edited 6 times in total.

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Re: M38 - Nothing at all to do with M151s

Unread post by rickf » September 18th, 2017, 4:06 pm

I went from PB to Kroil, https://www.walmart.com/ip/Kano-AeroKro ... 3=&veh=sem.
I used to use this stuff many years ago when a friend worked in an industrial place that had it. Once he retired I couldn't get it. A couple years ago one of the members here sent me some and I have been using it since. I have even swapped back and forth to test the two against each other and the Kroil is way above the PB. You don't have to get the monster size that I posted, that was just the first thing that popped up in a search.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
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Re: M38 - Nothing at all to do with M151s

Unread post by m3a1 » September 18th, 2017, 4:51 pm

BETTER than PB?!! Holy mackerel! That means it will make my coffee in the morning and tuck me in at night....with a story and a glass of warm milk!
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Re: M38 - Nothing at all to do with M151s

Unread post by m3a1 » September 18th, 2017, 5:53 pm

Here's more stuff that will have to be dealt with. See the bolt hole at the far right? Looks a little larger than the others and a little out of round, agreed?

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Proper bolt hole...

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:shock: And this is what is technically referred to as "wallered" as in "wallered out" but you have to say it with a wad of chewing tobacco in your mouth and a Tennessee accent. Translate that to "wallowed out" for you Sons of the North. There will be no tapping that and calling it good. Nope, that looks like a job for Helicoil, though arguably, it was getting along quite nicely with only five bolts. :roll:

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A proper brake backing plate. Note the nice square shoulder.

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NOT-so-proper brake backing plate! I'd love the hear the story behind that one! That metal is stretched. I don't think simply hammering on it is going to work. We'll probably have to heat that and shrink it back down.

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This really rang the bell for me. That hole in the bearing cup looks and feels as deep as the grand canyon and it is, in fact, a HOLE! And yet, the bearings look pretty good. I'm betting they replaced the bearings and not the cup. :roll: Notice the gouges in the barrel of the hub? Those are from people using a chisel or similar item to tighten the nuts on the spindle which can be done that way but care must be taken to ensure you're not chiseling off pieces of metal that might eventually find their way into the bearings.

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This bearing cup is on the same hub. All worn out. Poor little worn out cup. Soon you'll be going bye-bye. New bearings and new cups are in order.

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And the generally poor condition of the hub. Banged up edges and the flange doesn't really want to go in well and all sorts of gouges within which, if left there, will make getting the bearing cups in and out quite difficult.

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And here's the condition of the nut (all four are a mess) and washer for the spindle. I get it. The last guy didn't want to spend a dime on this truck and he used a chisel to tighten the nuts and .....

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he tried to use the washer as a locker but, had that shard of metal gotten loose and down into the working parts in that hub, he'd have spent a lot more than a dime! Sometimes it's simply better to spend a couple of dollars up front and sleep well at night.

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Whether you have a little truck, or a battleship, or something in between, we are only the temporary conservator of these vehicles. So remember, if you work on it, you put your name on it. If you cut corners, or if you do sloppy work, someone, somewhere, sometime is going to be cussin' you.

Cheers,
TJ
Last edited by m3a1 on April 13th, 2018, 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: M38 - Nothing at all to do with M151s

Unread post by rickf » September 18th, 2017, 7:55 pm

I have seen that groove in the bearing cup before, and the other cup verifies it. Water in there and sat for a long time and when the bearing finally moved there was a nasty rusty groove where the water had been trapped by the bearing roller. Then the constant hammering of the rollers going over it just made it worse. You can see the rust on the other cup.
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Re: M38 - Nothing at all to do with M151s

Unread post by Husker » September 18th, 2017, 8:04 pm

I really like that quote TJ
US Army Fort Belvoir

19XX M35 something. Sold......
1972 M151A2
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On the hunt for an M1031

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