1973? M151A2 Project

A place to post pics and descriptions of ongoing restoration projects

Moderators: rickf, raymond, Mr. Recovery

EXA6639
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 11
Joined: July 27th, 2015, 5:30 pm

1973? M151A2 Project

Unread post by EXA6639 » July 28th, 2015, 10:11 am

Picked up 1 1/2 M-151A2s from an owner in Mississippi.

These supposedly came out of Camp Shelby, and the story is that as they were being crushed and de-milled, some of them made it onto the bottom of the truck intact, and got covered up by crushed bodies. Included in this sale were one of each.

The crushed one seems to be newer, and had suspension and differentials intact, but driveshaft and axles were cut, apparently because the differential(s) was locked up. Not much there but as a donor there might be some value.

The second is running smoothly, though it needs some work. Clutch only engages at the very top, parking-brake is not engaging at all, rear differential has to come out as it's extremely loose, and the floorboards are rusted through. Apparently even had a plate welded on as a fix in the past from underneath, though that has now rusted through as well. It's got light rust all over, some gauges not working, gas tank leaks at filler tube, and who knows what else. But it runs.

Image

The intent is to totally strip and rebuild this. I have a "good" 1976 M-151A2 that I can use as an example so that will help. With the sale came a ton of used spare parts, but everything had been stored outside for years, so who knows what works and what doesn't.

Image

The data plate on this is blank, so it was registered with a made up VIN. I'd love to dig and try to get it's history before starting to tear things down. Unfortunately, this thing looks like it was painted 10 times over with a brush and the layers of paint are thick. I will try to uncover any original markings by peeling or sanding before sandblasting the body.

Image

The data plate off the engine is clean and legible, but no idea if this is the original or not.

Image

Any help in determining history or suggestions on what to look for to help is appreciated!
Last edited by EXA6639 on July 31st, 2015, 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
muttguru
Colonel
Colonel
Posts: 1992
Joined: November 26th, 2007, 12:18 pm
Location: Li'l ol' England.....

Re: Unknown Year M151A2 Project

Unread post by muttguru » July 28th, 2015, 11:09 am

EXA,
the engine is a 1973 contract. There was no 1973 "body" contract, the relevant contract would have been the 1971 AMG contract which ran from 72 through to the next contract in 1976. So if (and it is a BIG if) the engine is original to the vehicle, it could have been delivered anywhere from 1973 through to 1976.

Post a shot of the engine compartment and a closeup of the body-side panel just aft of the front wheel. That may help determine what you've got.
I assume there's no sign of a "hood" number? Or any remains of numbers on the passenger-side dash, beneath that blank plate?
Ken
Kind regards....
Ken

Always wanted - Details and pictures of M416 Trailer data plates & M151 data plates & body-tags for my research. Thanks!

Contact address - - muttguru@aol.com

Note for 2023..... Ken..."Less Stress - More Exercise!"

EXA6639
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 11
Joined: July 27th, 2015, 5:30 pm

Re: Unknown Year M151A2 Project

Unread post by EXA6639 » July 28th, 2015, 1:35 pm

Ken- thanks for the info. I figured the 73 in the number is the year for the engine...

Hopefully these are what you need, if not let me know. Under the layers of paint, there may be a hood number visible, but I'll have to carefully pick the layers of paint off it to expose. Shot below shows parts of it exposed.

Image
Image
Image

Will remove the data plate and see if there's anything underneath, but I suspect when these were not officially crushed, someone wanted its identity to remain hidden, hence the original plate removed.

ETA: Nothing underneath, but it did have the add-on NSN change, not sure if that helps with the date:
Image

And interestingly, underneath the updated NSN plate are some numbers that seem to have come off a plate underneath it that was freshly painted (maybe this was original and shows something about the previous plate?).
Image

No idea if they have any significance, but it looks like:
9207-12368664
M** 41024 (can't make out the *)

User avatar
muttguru
Colonel
Colonel
Posts: 1992
Joined: November 26th, 2007, 12:18 pm
Location: Li'l ol' England.....

Re: Unknown Year M151A2 Project

Unread post by muttguru » July 28th, 2015, 4:01 pm

Thanks for the photos.
1. I can't see any sign that a vapour canister was mounted (emissions canister), nor are there any visible mounting holes.
If correct, then the vehicle would be an early-to-mid-year 1973 model. However, looking at that side panel, I can't make out whether the hole is just a rust hole, or whether it is a louver drain hole that has rusted badly. I'll post a picture of what I mean, so you can check the other body side panel, as well as look for evidence of canister mounting holes.

2. That plate is the Overlay plate which changes the National Stock Number when the ROPS cage is fitted. The other plate? I can't correlate those numbers to anything M151-related, except for the "9207". If that really says "9257" then that would be part of the NSN for an M825 version of the M151A2. The M151A2 uses -9258....as you can see on your blank plate. However, I see no sign that your vehicle was an M825.

Canister mount bolts (or holes if bolts removed):-
Image



Side Drain Louver:-
Image
Last edited by muttguru on July 28th, 2015, 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kind regards....
Ken

Always wanted - Details and pictures of M416 Trailer data plates & M151 data plates & body-tags for my research. Thanks!

Contact address - - muttguru@aol.com

Note for 2023..... Ken..."Less Stress - More Exercise!"

User avatar
muttguru
Colonel
Colonel
Posts: 1992
Joined: November 26th, 2007, 12:18 pm
Location: Li'l ol' England.....

Re: Unknown Year M151A2 Project

Unread post by muttguru » July 28th, 2015, 4:07 pm

As for removing the old paint, have a look here............
http://www.1943mb.com/c-99-G503_WWII_Mi ... mbers.aspx


You can also look at this excellent advice that appeared on the M38 notice board from Rich Saylor. It should be just as valid for your mutt:-

Re the hood numbers, use 400 or finer "wet-or-dry" sandpaper (dark gray/black) with some liquid dish soap in water in a bowl, and start in very gently. Keep the sandpaper wet. You will be able to sand down to the numbers, enough to be able to see them, unless they were sanded off for repaint of course. When you have enough to clearly make out the numbers, etc. I suggest you take photos, and using thin tracing paper or clear plastic, make a tracing of the numbers, letters, etc. including their position on the hood, bumpers, bodywork, and so forth.

Also take good digital images for good measure. The original M38 hood numbers should be "USA" over the hood number; both the USA and the hood number are (or should be) 2" high. Later repaints switched from the original "USA" to "U.S.ARMY", so if the latter is what you see, it probably isn't the actual one applied when new, but a later one after repaint. If you keep sanding to find earlier numbers, that's why a tracing & photos are important...once gone, never to return.
Ken
Kind regards....
Ken

Always wanted - Details and pictures of M416 Trailer data plates & M151 data plates & body-tags for my research. Thanks!

Contact address - - muttguru@aol.com

Note for 2023..... Ken..."Less Stress - More Exercise!"

EXA6639
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 11
Joined: July 27th, 2015, 5:30 pm

Re: Unknown Year M151A2 Project

Unread post by EXA6639 » July 28th, 2015, 5:01 pm

muttguru wrote:Thanks for the photos.
1. I can't see any sign that a vapour canister was mounted (emissions canister), nor are there any visible mounting holes.
If correct, then the vehicle would be an early-to-mid-year 1973 model. However, looking at that side panel, I can't make out whether the hole is just a rust hole, or whether it is a louver drain hole that has rusted badly. I'll post a picture of what I mean, so you can check the other body side panel, as well as look for evidence of canister mounting holes.
Definitely no canister mount visible. Also no emissions on gas tank. My 76 does have the holes there, but no canister.
It does have side drain louvers, as the other side is clean. Is that an AMG feature or a date-specific add-on?
It also doesn't have the cold weather radiator cover clips on the front grill if that was a date-specific feature.
2. That plate is the Overlay plate which changes the National Stock Number when the ROPS cage is fitted. The other plate? I can't correlate those numbers to anything M151-related, except for the "9207". If that really says "9257" then that would be part of the NSN for an M825 version of the M151A2. The M151A2 uses -9258....as you can see on your blank plate. However, I see no sign that your vehicle was an M825.
Definitely says 9207; to clarify that was the back of the overlay plate. Looks like it was laid over a freshly painted plate below it, which is where those numbers came from. Thought we might have gotten lucky and it had a faint image of the identification number from a plate below it somehow.

Interestingly this thing was registered as a 67 Ford; obviously A2s weren't even around until 1970?
Obviously my goal is to decipher any clues about it's original identity before all evidence is gone.

Thanks for all the help Ken.

User avatar
muttguru
Colonel
Colonel
Posts: 1992
Joined: November 26th, 2007, 12:18 pm
Location: Li'l ol' England.....

Re: Unknown Year M151A2 Project

Unread post by muttguru » July 28th, 2015, 5:49 pm

Hello again EXA. I think we have a year of delivery for you. It's 1973. Up to the end of 1972, AMG-built vehicles of contract DAAE07-71-C-0103 had no side drains and no mount for the emissions canister. In the first few months of 1973, drain louvers were incorporated and it the later half of 1973, the emissions system was added. As you can probably guess, vehicles that needed remedial work would have been delayed so there will be an overlap of "without both", "with and without" and "with both".

As your engine is a 1973, it looks like it could be the original engine with the vehicle delivered in 1973. If you intend to title it, I'd go with 1973 and guess at the month (Jan to June).

What you need to determine now is the hood number. Get removing that paint :D

Do you know where to look for the VIN plate? (if it is still there, that is).

Ken
Kind regards....
Ken

Always wanted - Details and pictures of M416 Trailer data plates & M151 data plates & body-tags for my research. Thanks!

Contact address - - muttguru@aol.com

Note for 2023..... Ken..."Less Stress - More Exercise!"

EXA6639
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 11
Joined: July 27th, 2015, 5:30 pm

Re: Unknown Year M151A2 Project

Unread post by EXA6639 » July 28th, 2015, 6:05 pm

muttguru wrote:Hello again EXA. I think we have a year of delivery for you. It's 1973. Up to the end of 1972, AMG-built vehicles of contract DAAE07-71-C-0103 had no side drains and no mount for the emissions canister. In the first few months of 1973, drain louvers were incorporated and it the later half of 1973, the emissions system was added. As you can probably guess, vehicles that needed remedial work would have been delayed so there will be an overlap of "without both", "with and without" and "with both".

As your engine is a 1973, it looks like it could be the original engine with the vehicle delivered in 1973. If you intend to title it, I'd go with 1973 and guess at the month (Jan to June).
AWESOME- that is great to know. Man you are a wealth of information.
What you need to determine now is the hood number. Get removing that paint :D
Do you know where to look for the VIN plate? (if it is still there, that is).
Ken
Paint removal started, as I'm going to try to chip it as it's flaking off. It looks like the original is well adhered underneath all that.
As for the VIN plate, no- I know there was supposed to be a plate near the drivers right ankle on the transmission tunnel, but I see nothing there unless it is under the fuel lines?

User avatar
rickf
General
General
Posts: 19761
Joined: November 26th, 2007, 1:28 pm
Location: Pemberton, NJ.

Re: Unknown Year M151A2 Project

Unread post by rickf » July 28th, 2015, 6:11 pm

It would be right about behind the lines so look there also. You just had to tell Ken he was a wealth of information didn't you? Now his hat won't fit for months. :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: :twisted:
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone

User avatar
Jay Mallari
1st Lieutenant
1st Lieutenant
Posts: 931
Joined: December 7th, 2007, 10:30 pm
Location: Middlesex, England

Re: Unknown Year M151A2 Project

Unread post by Jay Mallari » July 29th, 2015, 2:02 am

And interestingly, underneath the updated NSN plate are some numbers that seem to have come off a plate underneath it that was freshly painted (maybe this was original and shows something about the previous plate?).
Image

No idea if they have any significance, but it looks like:
9207-12368664
M** 41024 (can't make out the *)

It's actually 12368354. That's just the part number for the overlay plate.

User avatar
muttguru
Colonel
Colonel
Posts: 1992
Joined: November 26th, 2007, 12:18 pm
Location: Li'l ol' England.....

Re: Unknown Year M151A2 Project

Unread post by muttguru » July 29th, 2015, 5:27 am

rickf wrote:It would be right about behind the lines so look there also.
Yep... this is where it should be:-

Image

But some owners report that their vehicles had no sign of the plate and no sign there ever was one in that location.

So here's the only other place to look.....and this is still in the "is it the correct data?" research in-tray.

Image

If it ain't in any of these locations, there's nowhere else.

Jay, well spotted on that plate number !

ken
Kind regards....
Ken

Always wanted - Details and pictures of M416 Trailer data plates & M151 data plates & body-tags for my research. Thanks!

Contact address - - muttguru@aol.com

Note for 2023..... Ken..."Less Stress - More Exercise!"

User avatar
m75
Sergeant Major
Sergeant Major
Posts: 500
Joined: April 12th, 2015, 2:01 pm
Location: Antelope Valley, CA

Re: Unknown Year M151A2 Project

Unread post by m75 » July 29th, 2015, 3:07 pm

Ken,

I see that your picture is of the spare tire carrier on the regular 1/4 ton. What is it that's appearing on the plate? Hard to make it out. Was it the full truck serial number?
Jim Peterson
SGM, 31B Retired 2015
1961 M151 -Sold
1974 M151A2, Working It!

User avatar
muttguru
Colonel
Colonel
Posts: 1992
Joined: November 26th, 2007, 12:18 pm
Location: Li'l ol' England.....

Re: Unknown Year M151A2 Project

Unread post by muttguru » July 29th, 2015, 5:53 pm

m75 wrote:Ken, What is it that's appearing on the plate? Hard to make it out. Was it the full truck serial number?
Jim,
here's the background. Over the years, I've asked for details of M151s owned world-wide. Among the questions I asked owners were.... "what is the registration number?" and "what is the body-tag number?"
In the 20+ years of collecting this information, I noticed a pattern emerging which concerned the pre-emission controlled AMG-built vehicles (A2s built from 72 to mid-73).
Many owners gave me their registration number, etc, but a handful said that their vehicles did not have a body tag. I assumed that somewhere along the ownership chain, the plate had been removed and this was the case for several. However, for this particular batch of A2s, ALL the owners who contributed information said that there was not even a trace of a body-tag, no remains, no old spot-welds, nothing.
One day, out of the blue, Jose contacted me and said that whilst stripping his mutt for a repaint, he had noticed a set of numbers stamped into the spare wheel boss. (The number in the picture appears to be 20858. (not sure about the middle digit). Unfortunately there was no dash dataplate on his vehicle, no hood number either, so it was and still is impossible to be certain that the number on the spare wheel boss is the body-tag. It may well be....but I just don't have enough data to verify this and because there are so few early AMG mutts out there, it looks unlikely that I'll ever have enough numbers to be certain. But it's a nice theory. :D

ken
Kind regards....
Ken

Always wanted - Details and pictures of M416 Trailer data plates & M151 data plates & body-tags for my research. Thanks!

Contact address - - muttguru@aol.com

Note for 2023..... Ken..."Less Stress - More Exercise!"

EXA6639
Private First Class
Private First Class
Posts: 11
Joined: July 27th, 2015, 5:30 pm

Re: Unknown Year M151A2 Project

Unread post by EXA6639 » July 29th, 2015, 6:50 pm

Mine has no plate on the transmission tunnel (and no sign there was ever one there) and too much paint on the spare tire carrier to see anything that may exist on there right now... I'll get rid of that and see what lies beneath.

halftracknut
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
Posts: 2068
Joined: December 11th, 2007, 2:28 pm

Re: Unknown Year M151A2 Project

Unread post by halftracknut » July 30th, 2015, 5:20 pm

how about some photo of the one on back of the trailer??? is it for sale?
slowest mutt east of the missippi..

Post Reply