Sucks driving on 3 wheels...

This is the place to get help with technical matters concerning your M151 jeep

Moderators: rickf, raymond, Mr. Recovery

HitchMar Films
Corporal
Corporal
Posts: 34
Joined: January 2nd, 2016, 1:46 am

Sucks driving on 3 wheels...

Unread post by HitchMar Films » May 21st, 2017, 6:46 pm

Ok, I've recently had a very unpleasant experience while driving. It could have been substantially worse, but wasn't so time to move on...

While driving down the highway recently, something failed in the right front wheel causing an instantaneous failure, as I watched my entire wheel go rolling off not in the same direction I was going in...

I haven't finished pulling off the remaining parts, but right now it appears to be a inner bearing failure. Everything is covered in a heavy coating of grease, and everything from the inside of the wheel to the U joint is missing. The U joint appears to be undamaged, as is the part where the inner axle bearings go. The axle bearings are gone, the remnant of a ring is the only thing left. The wheel bearings that are on the inside of the wheel are still there, but I haven't cleaned them off yet so I can't say what condition they're in... The wheel cap is still in place, but I haven't removed it yet... When the wheel separated, it took all of the brake parts with it..

So right now I'm looking at a complete brake rebuild and a couple of sets of bearings and cones... There maybe more once I get everything pulled apart and cleaned off...

A couple of questions... Has anyone seen this before, and any guesses what happened???

I've rebuilt the axles on my M109A1, a M35A1 variant, before. What kind of job am I looking at on my Mutt??? Easy home repairs or am I going to need special tools???

Sorry for the lack of correct terminology... I just printed the portion of the repair manual that covers the wheel repairs...

Thanks for the input!!!

Chris...

User avatar
rickf
General
General
Posts: 19738
Joined: November 26th, 2007, 1:28 pm
Location: Pemberton, NJ.

Re: Sucks driving on 3 wheels...

Unread post by rickf » May 22nd, 2017, 8:17 am

If the hub is still attached to the wheel and the bearings are gone then the spindle must have broken off. That would be a new one if the bearings were well greased. Glad it had a safe ending.Nothing really special to working in them, knock the lock ring loose on the hub cap and unscrew that off the hub and there will be a wheel bearing nut that you take off to get the hub off. Look in the -20P 1978 page 129 and it shows a breakdown of the wheel and hub assembly. That manual is available in out manuals section.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone

User avatar
m3a1
Lt. General
Lt. General
Posts: 4027
Joined: August 7th, 2014, 6:36 pm

Re: Sucks driving on 3 wheels...

Unread post by m3a1 » May 22nd, 2017, 1:53 pm

Sorry to hear about this. Murphy is a b*****d, isn't he? I'm slowly working my way through PM-ing my truck's rolling bits at this time. Too many unknowns for me to feel completely comfortable with mine, given all the evidence of long-suffered abuses and neglect.

Yours is an at-home level of project. If you have previously gotten into your M109 this will seem like child's play.

Something to think about - If your bearings seized and the spindle separated you should also give some consideration to what stresses may have been placed upon the bearing carrier. That part is as tough as woodpecker lips but don't just assume that it's OK after that.

Take some pics to share if the you have to time and inclination.

Cheers,
TJ

HitchMar Films
Corporal
Corporal
Posts: 34
Joined: January 2nd, 2016, 1:46 am

Re: Sucks driving on 3 wheels...

Unread post by HitchMar Films » May 23rd, 2017, 4:47 am

Thanks for the input!!!! I haven't seen this kind of engineering before so I just want to make sure I have my ducks in a row before I start completely dismantling that wheel assembly...

One other question I have is the parts I need. I know I'll need bearings, bearing cones, and brake parts. But what about wheel seals??? I thought I had the manual that shows part names and numbers and install order, but I'm not finding it...

Which manual is it???

Yeah, this weekend I'll be pulling that turnee thingy off that holds in that doohicky that goes around and around, that's stuck to that tube thing that sticks to the back of the tire....

Thanks guys!!!!

Chris...

on-to-berlin
Sergeant First Class
Sergeant First Class
Posts: 236
Joined: December 1st, 2011, 1:54 pm

Re: Sucks driving on 3 wheels...

Unread post by on-to-berlin » May 23rd, 2017, 5:48 am

the bearings and seals are sold in complete sets. They are easy to change. The first one was difficult to see to far to hammer in the new cups and bearings.
I Have now bough a cheap 10 t press. Makes life easier.

Have a look at the restauration section. I have photographed the changing on mine. If you need more pictures let me know and I can send them or post them online.

I think it is very strange that the whole wheel came off. I cannot imagine that a worn bearing was the cause.

Did you ever go serious off road with it?
1939 Harley Davidson U
1944 Harley Davidson WLA
1944 Willys MB
1969 Ford Mutt A1
1973 AM General Mutt A2

User avatar
rickf
General
General
Posts: 19738
Joined: November 26th, 2007, 1:28 pm
Location: Pemberton, NJ.

Re: Sucks driving on 3 wheels...

Unread post by rickf » May 23rd, 2017, 7:57 am

You are going to need everything from the u-joint out if the spindle broke and maybe more depending on what got bent in the process.
This is the manual you will need to line up parts and get a good blow up of how things go together. Look over the diagrams well before diving in since it is quite a bit different than a solid axle.

http://www.g838.org/g838_manuals/TM%209 ... 0Dec78.pdf

You will also want to download this manual for reference to the procedures for taking it apart and putting it together.

http://www.g838.org/g838_manuals/TM%209 ... ep1971.pdf
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone

Fil Bonica
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
Posts: 2607
Joined: December 9th, 2007, 10:49 am
Location: ~ Heaven ~

Re: Sucks driving on 3 wheels...

Unread post by Fil Bonica » May 23rd, 2017, 12:00 pm

A catastrophic failure like that is kind of unusual!
It would be interesting to see if spindle fractured or if the spindle nut came undone.
Let us know after the autopsy .

Fil Bonica.
K1ABW

HitchMar Films
Corporal
Corporal
Posts: 34
Joined: January 2nd, 2016, 1:46 am

Re: Sucks driving on 3 wheels...

Unread post by HitchMar Films » May 24th, 2017, 5:45 am

Thank you again everyone for the input and the support. I've downloaded the manuals so ill be looking at those quite closely!!!
I will spend this weekend pulling it apart and cleaning up the remaining pieces. I'll be sure to shoot pics for this thread. I do have 3 pics of the wheel right after it happened, while I was waiting for a tow. But I can't quite figure out how to insert them into this thread. I try to create a album but it directs me to another page that has multiple error messages..
To answer a earlier question, yes I use my Mutt off road. But its 1st gear, idle crawl stuff, nothing that should have caused any kind of damage... And yes, the Mutts are excellent off road... I own a mining company and my Mutt is my prospecting vehicle. Better than any side by side I've seen out there...
The only other info I can add right now about the instant part failure was, just before the wheel separated, there was a very quick moment where I could feel the Mutt lag. Like something was binding... Well, I guess it was... There was no change in steering, or direction prior to it coming apart, just a feeling like the brakes were engaged for a second then I watched my right front wheel take a right turn without me... Could have been a lot worse. I was doing 50 mph down the highway when it let go. When it did, it took the whole brake assembly with it, so there was no stopping pretty much without hitting something or letting it grind to a stop...
There doesn't appear to be any secondary damage. The backing plate is a bit flat on the bottom. That appears to be from the initial impact of hitting the asphalt vs being ground down. Everything else looks straight...
Needless to say, I'll be looking at the other 3 wheels when I get this one rebuilt...

User avatar
rickf
General
General
Posts: 19738
Joined: November 26th, 2007, 1:28 pm
Location: Pemberton, NJ.

Re: Sucks driving on 3 wheels...

Unread post by rickf » May 24th, 2017, 8:48 am

Curious to see what it looks like, in order to post picture you will need to have an online photo account like Photobucket or similar. Then copy the image link and paste it in the post. By the way, in your situation your emergency brake still would have worked because the rear driveline was still intact.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone

User avatar
m3a1
Lt. General
Lt. General
Posts: 4027
Joined: August 7th, 2014, 6:36 pm

Re: Sucks driving on 3 wheels...

Unread post by m3a1 » May 24th, 2017, 1:48 pm

As Rick said. You will be needing to replace almost every bit of that. It would be a huge mistake to try to re-use any of that stuff because of the forces and heat acting upon them.

I was in law enforcement and spent most of my career out on the freeways. As such, I saw a lot of mechanical failures involving wheels/tires separating from the vehicle or burning the vehicle to the ground. The most common reason was bearing failure. The second most common was seized brakes.

What ever the root cause of the failure is, the result is always the same - relentlessly high heat to the point where the metal parts, which are still going around and around essentially weld themselves together, then fail, usually in spectacular fashion. That process of welding/seizing is undoubtedly responsible for the momentary lag that you felt.

If you are asking yourself which particular part failed, having some idea that you can salvage other parts, just remember one thing. Under the circumstances I just described, EVERYTHING in that immediate area probably became heated to cherry red so the remaining parts that did not obviously fail are probably not salvageable.

HitchMar Films
Corporal
Corporal
Posts: 34
Joined: January 2nd, 2016, 1:46 am

Re: Sucks driving on 3 wheels...

Unread post by HitchMar Films » May 25th, 2017, 7:01 am

Thanks for info everyone!!! Ok, I think I have a way of showing you the 3 pics I have of the wheel immediately after getting stopped... I'll see here in a minute when I try to share them.

As for salvaging any parts, trust me I was using the term loosely. You'll see by the pics there's not much left to salvage. Pretty much just the rim and the tire...

So here goes, let me see if I can show you my Mutt...

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-QYA ... i05RU15Yms
With 4 wheels...

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-QYA ... kJnQWFJZHM
The inside of the tire...

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-QYA ... 0ctdzIyOFE
What's left of the brakes...

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-QYA ... FBJcTlBYXc
The U Joint...

I was oping I could get the actual images to show, but I think you guys will be able to see her...

Chris...

njjeeper
1st Sergeant
1st Sergeant
Posts: 447
Joined: December 29th, 2007, 1:02 pm

Re: Sucks driving on 3 wheels...

Unread post by njjeeper » May 25th, 2017, 8:44 am

Yikes, you are very lucky this ended well if that happened at 50mph. Looks to me like the axle shaft failed....

User avatar
rickf
General
General
Posts: 19738
Joined: November 26th, 2007, 1:28 pm
Location: Pemberton, NJ.

Re: Sucks driving on 3 wheels...

Unread post by rickf » May 25th, 2017, 8:53 am

Ok, This does not look as bad as you originally described. It appears that the spindle nut came off and everything followed. It would be odd for the right side nut to come off like that but that is what it looks like. If you take the hub cap off you should find the nut and probably the outer bearing unless it fell through the wheel. I think once everything is cleaned up you will find that you can get away with a new bearing and seal kit and probably and outer axle stub.And the brakes naturally. The backing plate is probably usable but if it is ground down you might want to replace it.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone

Fil Bonica
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
Posts: 2607
Joined: December 9th, 2007, 10:49 am
Location: ~ Heaven ~

Re: Sucks driving on 3 wheels...

Unread post by Fil Bonica » May 25th, 2017, 10:21 am

Oh gee the old man made a good guess as to failure!
Thankfully you werent going at road speed.
Now check the other three wheels for proper torque and cotter pins.

Fil Bonica
K1ABW

User avatar
rickf
General
General
Posts: 19738
Joined: November 26th, 2007, 1:28 pm
Location: Pemberton, NJ.

Re: Sucks driving on 3 wheels...

Unread post by rickf » May 25th, 2017, 10:34 am

Ok, OLD man, he doesn't have the hub off yet. But it certainly does look that way. The jerk you felt would have been as it came away from the bearing and hit the breaks and they grabbed right before the springs broke away.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone

Post Reply