Sucks driving on 3 wheels...

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Horst
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Re: Sucks driving on 3 wheels...

Unread post by Horst » May 25th, 2017, 3:08 pm

I never liked that simple design. If the cotter pin fails, there you go. And the designers were aware of the weak spot as they exactly specified the cotter pin material and such. Once I year I remove the hub caps (easy in my case with the USMC caps) and visually check how the cotter pin is doing. Without any doubt, a nut will always have turned just a little bit and the castle is leaning against the cotter pin.
Horst

1972 USMC M151A2 w/ROPS (ex Barstow) and M416
1962 M201 and trailer
1966 GTO,1982 E350 Skoolie, 1987 SJ413, 1987 911
Gone: 2xM35A2c, Unimog 404S, Hanomag AL28, DKW Munga

HitchMar Films
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Re: Sucks driving on 3 wheels...

Unread post by HitchMar Films » May 26th, 2017, 5:40 am

I would agree with you all that it was the nut coming off. My son in law who's a pretty decent mechanic, believed it to be a bearing failure. He got into it a bit and that was his idea. I haven't taken the cap off yet, but he did. He said everything is still on the inside with exception of the cotter pin... Thing was, about 3 weeks before this I checked the wheels for bearing wear. I didn't pull the caps, but the amount of free play in both front wheels was almost identical... So maybe a cotter pin failure since then???
I pretty much figured from what I could see was bearings and brakes would need to be replaced. I'll know more when I pull it apart and clean up what's left...I still don't know correct part names yet, so forgive my ignorance here. The geared shaft that the brake drum attaches to, that the spindle shaft goes into, is chewed up on the end. I figured that happened when the wheel separated and the inside of that assembly slammed into the asphalt. As dirty as it is now, I don't know if that'll need to be replaced also...
At least I know how to post pictures here now, and thank you by the way!!! I'll be posting more when I start the tear down...
I'm suppose to pick up a custom built rock crusher this weekend also. Not that it'll do me any good right now... Prospecting new mines has been side lined since the Mutt has hand a bad foot...
My Mutt and her big brother...
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-QYA ... 093RHJKTVk
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-QYA ... jZRN0hKM3M

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Horst
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Re: Sucks driving on 3 wheels...

Unread post by Horst » May 26th, 2017, 6:13 am

very good looking 151. I am however biased being a friend of ROPS :) Any reason you don't have the front nets installed?
Horst

1972 USMC M151A2 w/ROPS (ex Barstow) and M416
1962 M201 and trailer
1966 GTO,1982 E350 Skoolie, 1987 SJ413, 1987 911
Gone: 2xM35A2c, Unimog 404S, Hanomag AL28, DKW Munga

Hambone
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Re: Sucks driving on 3 wheels...

Unread post by Hambone » May 26th, 2017, 7:24 am

Good looking jeep, is it an Encore?

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rickf
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Re: Sucks driving on 3 wheels...

Unread post by rickf » May 26th, 2017, 8:25 am

Looks like Encore front fenders but they had a more 151 like footwell cutout.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone

HitchMar Films
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Re: Sucks driving on 3 wheels...

Unread post by HitchMar Films » May 27th, 2017, 6:15 am

Now you guys are asking me questions I just can't answer... I got my Mutt and the trailer about a year and a half ago from a guy who didn't know much about it. He said he got it from the guy who started the restoration on it. The guy I got it from only used it during veterans parades and special events... I got my Deuce back in 2009, which I love to drive also, but wanted something a bit more daily driver friendly...
The only info I know is that its a 1965, made by Ford... And its not been cut.... All in all its been a great little daily driver. Its had its issues, and some new ones keep popping up.. When I got it, the only lights that worked were the side front fender marker lights and the front turn signal lights... She was dark every where else... And the gas gauge was not working... Other than that she ran great. Cleaned and checked all the grounds, replaced bulbs, finally got to where the only lights not working were the brake lights, and this annoying little issue of the lights would only work about 10 minutes before the internal breaker in the 3 lever switch module would trip killing all lights... Turn the the switch off, and a few minutes later you could hear the breaker reset and off I'd go... Then the dash lights wouldn't come on, I'd have to fiddle with the switch to get them to work. A new 3 lever switch module fixed both issues but still had no brake lights... A new brake pedal switch fixed that also, and surprisingly the gas gauge. When I replaced the brake pedal switch, the gas gauge started working.... So now she looks like a Christmas tree at night, all lit up pretty like...
Sucked some junk up into the carb, rebuilt that, but shes running a bit rich... She's in bad need of a tune up too...
The right front paw needs work, but you guys know that..
The only issue that I'm really concerned about is, and this just started just before the wheel fell off, is when I start her up, she's sounds good. after running for a minute or two, I pick up a bearing squeak down low, back end of the motor, maybe further back. I haven't been able to chase it down yet. I can hear it at idle or when coasting down from speed. It goes away when under throttle pressure or cruising... When I shut the motor down, and come back even as little as a couple of minutes later and start back up, its not there. Again, it comes back after several minutes of run time... My son in law says he needs to hear it, but he thinks it maybe the throw out bearing for the clutch, based on my description...
Thoughts anyone???
No front netting because it didn't come with any... But sadly the rear netting is gone now too... Last years Arizona summer just killed it... I do have the door strap.. WooHoo!!!
Thanks again for all the thoughts and ideas. I'll be starting the disassembly on the right front this weekend, I'll get some new pics posted...
Chris...

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rickf
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Re: Sucks driving on 3 wheels...

Unread post by rickf » May 27th, 2017, 8:39 am

HitchMar Films wrote: The only issue that I'm really concerned about is, and this just started just before the wheel fell off, is when I start her up, she's sounds good. after running for a minute or two, I pick up a bearing squeak down low, back end of the motor, maybe further back. I haven't been able to chase it down yet. I can hear it at idle or when coasting down from speed. It goes away when under throttle pressure or cruising... When I shut the motor down, and come back even as little as a couple of minutes later and start back up, its not there. Again, it comes back after several minutes of run time... My son in law says he needs to hear it, but he thinks it maybe the throw out bearing for the clutch, based on my description...
Thoughts anyone???

Chris...
A throwout bearing would change as you applied the clutch and let off the clutch. A pilot bearing will generally not make noise in gear unless it is real bad and at that point it would be making it hard to shift. It sounds more like a transmission issue. Does pushing the clutch in while it is making noise at idle and sitting make it go away?Have you checked the oil in the transmission?
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone

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Horst
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Re: Sucks driving on 3 wheels...

Unread post by Horst » May 27th, 2017, 8:47 am

Chris,

As said, very nice looking little jeep. It is everything but not a 1965 Ford. Post a few more pictures, also from the underside.
Horst

1972 USMC M151A2 w/ROPS (ex Barstow) and M416
1962 M201 and trailer
1966 GTO,1982 E350 Skoolie, 1987 SJ413, 1987 911
Gone: 2xM35A2c, Unimog 404S, Hanomag AL28, DKW Munga

HitchMar Films
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Re: Sucks driving on 3 wheels...

Unread post by HitchMar Films » May 28th, 2017, 12:52 am

The bearing squeak only goes away while under throttle pressure or a neutral throttle at speed.... Idle and coasting is when its the loudest... I've checked the transmission fluid, its good. The transmission and clutch appears to work fine. Notchy, but no gears hanging up...

What picks would you need to say for sure what year it is??? I thought they were pretty much generic through the earlier years... I know very little about the M151 series, and not much about my Mutt. So anything anyone can pass onto me about what I have would be great!!!

Chris...

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Horst
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Re: Sucks driving on 3 wheels...

Unread post by Horst » May 28th, 2017, 4:14 am

very likely what you have is an aftermarket body. Nothing bad, actually some of them use heavy gauge steel. Just not exactly the original thing. You need to post a few more pictures including one of the rear suspension (to understand if it has A1 style A-arms or A2 style trailing arms).

Further hint is an angled side entry design, not curved as the Budd/Kaiser/AMG bodies.

Some further tell tale signs of an aftermarket body are the composite lights on top of flat fenders, the original A2 has a curved fender to accept those. And composite rear lights not recessed into the body but straight bolt on. Maybe a tail gate. But again, guess work from the couch not backed by photos.
Horst

1972 USMC M151A2 w/ROPS (ex Barstow) and M416
1962 M201 and trailer
1966 GTO,1982 E350 Skoolie, 1987 SJ413, 1987 911
Gone: 2xM35A2c, Unimog 404S, Hanomag AL28, DKW Munga

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Re: Sucks driving on 3 wheels...

Unread post by Rossco » May 30th, 2017, 7:09 am

Horst

Concerning your reference in the post re cotter pins for front/rear wheel bearings
"as they exactly specified the cotter pin material and such"
My question is there a specific type of cotter pin to use when securing the castelated nut on MUTT wheel bearings?? The reason I ask my MUTT had bent nails securing the nut rather than conventional cotter pin and wondered if this was an attempt to make sure these did not fail and the wheel/s fall off!!

Euan
1973 M-151A2
1960 Seagrave LAFD Hook and Ladder Fire Truck
1953 M38A1 Jeep
1998 Ford Escort XR3i
2007 Ford Focus ST 2.5

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rickf
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Re: Sucks driving on 3 wheels...

Unread post by rickf » May 30th, 2017, 8:09 am

Bent nails were used when cotter pins were not available and are NOT suitable! The problem is the design, usually on a wheel there is a washer that is keyed to the spindle and then the nut and then the cotter pin. The pin would not normally have any force on it since the keyed washer keeps the rotational force from touching the nut. With no keyed washer the rotational force can reach the nut and on the drivers side that force will loosen the nuts. Hence you need a high strength cotter pin. You do not find these on the store shelf, they all come from China and are low grade. To be honest I don't know where you would find them anymore, I would have to do some research on that. Aircraft industry come to mind right off.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone

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Horst
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Re: Sucks driving on 3 wheels...

Unread post by Horst » May 30th, 2017, 8:28 am

Rick is spot on. Bad design, a few cents extra would have brought it to normal design standards.

This is a picture of one of my hubs, as you can see, the nut is "leaning" against the cotter pin. However when installed, I turned the nut right in the middle and the cotter was nicely centered. So you can see that the nut actually turned.
Image
Horst

1972 USMC M151A2 w/ROPS (ex Barstow) and M416
1962 M201 and trailer
1966 GTO,1982 E350 Skoolie, 1987 SJ413, 1987 911
Gone: 2xM35A2c, Unimog 404S, Hanomag AL28, DKW Munga

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rickf
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Re: Sucks driving on 3 wheels...

Unread post by rickf » May 30th, 2017, 11:13 am

That is not unusual even with the keyed washers but there is no rotational force applies with that type of washer. I have a trailer with this same setup and it has caused me two lost wheels so far. I am looking for a source of high quality cotter pins.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone

Mark
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Re: Sucks driving on 3 wheels...

Unread post by Mark » May 30th, 2017, 12:38 pm

I wonder if the cotter pins we used on the bells(insulators) on the transmission powerlines /pinned shackles are hard enough?
I certainly would think so.Aw, but now no access!!
mark


1968 m274A5
1960 m151
1981 m151A2
1964 m416
1971 m416

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