Valves or Piston Rings

[rickf]

Found the procedure for the distributor. Read it several times before doing anything and have the paper printed out when you do it. Download the manual below if you do not have it.

http://www.g838.org/g838_manuals/TM_9-2 ... an1972.pdf

Go to the section "Distributor Assembly" 6-8.

You will find everything you need there right down to making up a jig to be sure it is exactly in position. You should not need that since I think the if you rotate the dog 180 degrees you will be right but I believe someone ran a drill through it because the pin would not go through not realizing that had it backwards. The key to this is that the hole will never be perfectly straight through the shaft so when you drill it for one position then that is the only position it will fit. If you rotate it the pin will not go through. What you are going to have to do is drill it 90 degrees from the direction it is drilled now. Both the dog and the shaft together so the holes will be perfectly matched.

[m3a1]

I'm watching this with great interest. I'm wondering if drilling a second hole, 90 degrees to the first isn't such a good idea owing to the possibility of metal fatigue. Any chance of getting another shaft altogether or is it part of the pump?

I would remind everyone that Rick's suggestion of rolling up the sleeves and getting in there and replacing the pump and orienting it correctly is the best idea by far. I have a similar mechanic's story involving a Scout Car that becomes something of a real saga before it ends successfully.

Yours is one of those times when putting one foot in front of the other and doing it correctly is really the only way to get through it.

[muttguru]

Before you start attempting any work on the shaft etc......the most important thing you can do is to determine whether the roll-pin that holds the cog/dog on the distributor shaft is actually loose. That tape looks like someone was trying to make a seal to prevent oil working its way up into the distributor rather than holding the roll-pin in place.

If the cog is firm and the roll-pin is not protruding, check the alignment of the oil pump notch (with the intermediate shaft removed) and with the valves on No.1 piston both closed, look where the pump notch is pointing. It SHOULD be parallel with the block, point forward. If it points rearward (but is parallel), you may need to turn the crankshaft ONE complete turn for top-dead-centre. If the notch is parallel, or very nearly so, then there should be enough room between the engine block and distributor for lateral adjustment of the distributor...sufficient to align the timing pointer on the front of the engine with the mark on the crankshaft pulley.

If the alignment of the pump notch is more than a few degrees from parallel, then most likely the oil pump was installed incorrectly.

As Rick says, you should read the relevant section of the tech manual over and over until you fully understand it before embarking on work.
Ken

[rickf]

Ken, where that tape is would have no effect whatsoever on oil control, it is on a rotating shaft well below any sealing surface or seal. I do agree that if the oil pump is 180 out then he has some thinking to do but if that pin is loose it pretty much says that there was an ongoing issue with it and that was their solution. If the pin is loose AND it is determined that the pump is off by 180 degrees then if it were mine I would run it with the wires repositioned until it was time to pull the engine. Ian, just so you know, that slot in the oil pump is offset to one side just a hair. you have to look hard to see it but the slot should be offset towards the block side of the gear. That is how you know when it is in the right position, that and it should be almost parallel with the block, pointing just a bit in towards the front of the motor.

[muttguru]

Ian, just so you know, that slot in the oil pump is offset to one side just a hair. you have to look hard to see it but the slot should be offset towards the block side of the gear.

Rick,
are you sure that the slot in the top of the oil pump is offset? I think you may find that the offsets are (a) in the top of the intermediate shaft and (b) on the tang at the bottom of the distributor shaft. That's why lifting the intermediate shaft and then rotating it 180 degrees still allows the intermediate shaft to install on the slot in the top of the oil pump. If either item (or both) were offset, the intermediate shaft would not mate up with the oil pump when the shaft was rotated 180.
When the intermediate shaft is installed at zero degrees or at 180 degrees, the shaft of the distributor also has to rotate either zero degrees or 180 degrees to match the offset, otherwise it won't insert into the top of the intermediate shaft.
Ken

[Fil Bonica]

Just took an oil pump intermediate shaft and distributor out of the cabinet.
All are NOs.
The intermediate shaft will go in either direction in to the oil pump
The upper end will only mate in one direction to the distributor thereby eliminating a possible error
As an aside the oil pump has a notch on one end presumably indicating the correct direction.
Hope this info helps to clear up some f th fog
Fil Bonica

[rickf]

Forgot about the notch, thanks for the reminder. I am pretty sure the pump slot is offset to one side because I remember comparing it to a Volkswagon at one time. I hope to be rearranging all of my spare motors before my surgery and I will be sure to check. I actually have a motor that came in my 151 where the oil pump had been installed wrong so their solution was to move the dog on the distributor to match the oil pump! So that distributor will only fit that engine in it's present form.

[ian-b]

Here are this evenings results, so I re-charged the batteries tried to fire up the engine, at the moment I have as Rick suggested swapped the HT leads around, still would not fire up so I swapped the leads back to how they should be if everything was correct result a massive backfire so loud it woke up the roosting crows, so I swapped them back and it tried to fire up in fact it ran 4 times for a couple of seconds , which led to another fault the starter motor each time it ran would not re-engage it just ran without engaging the flywheel it I spent some minutes flicking the starter motor switch on/off eventually it worked, the main problem I had was working out the correct method of starting which eventually was full choke pump the throttle a couple of times and hold it down, but by this time batteries had dropped down to just under 11 volts each so back on charge.
my main question is would it fire up and even run for a couple of seconds if the timing was 180 degrees out I am sure I have proved it is but just checking.
Cant do anymore now until the weekend but will keep you all informed.
Ian

[Fil Bonica]

Go back to your original assessment of low compression on three cylinders.
It would be my suggestion that you consider removing the head and having it refurbished.
Then confirm that timing is correct.
We recentl had two 151 eng.ines with the same symptoms.
Both were in dry storage for years .
Stuck valves were the problem in both cases.
Consider it.

Fil Bonica

[ian-b]

Ok latest results.
Batteries fully charged and as Rick's suggestion with HT leads swapped assuming it is 180 degrees out, it fired up first go and ran, I then as Ken suggested swapped the distributor short shaft 180 degrees and put the HT leads back to the correct firing order and it started first go and runs ok.
It would seem that when the distributor was fitted either by the supplier or someone else it was fitted incorrectly.
Thanks to you all for your great help.
Unfortunately the water pump leaks not too worried about that rather now than when its fully rebuilt and on the side of the road somewhere.
The starter motor hangs up so I took it off cleaned the Bendix drive but noticed the starter motor shaft was slightly bent so this seems to be the problem put it back on and seems to work ok, this starter did not come with this engine so no idea how it got bent.
Also I did a quick compression test and the compression on No1 cylinder has picked up its now 85psi
The marvel mystery oil has now arrived so the next stage is put some in the cylinders and see if that helps.
Ian

[rickf]

Now that it is running take a quart of oil out and put a quart of Marvel in and run it with the Marvel in there. That will free up any stuck rings plus it will lube the valve guides.

[ian-b]

Rick, I will change the water pump and put the marvel oil in, once its run for awhile i will recheck the compression and let you know the results thanks for all your help and advise.
ian

[muttguru]

........The starter motor hangs up so I took it off cleaned the Bendix drive but noticed the starter motor shaft was slightly bent so this seems to be the problem put it back on and seems to work ok, this starter did not come with this engine so no idea how it got bent. Ian

Ian, have a trip over to the G503.....there's a lister selling a new-old-stock starter as well as a Gov't rebuilt one. You'll see it here:-

http://g503.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=280917

Ken

[Flyingvan911]

When we rebuilt my Mutt engine we used the typical rebuild lube. I also poured a tiny bit of Marvel in each of the cylinders before we put the head on. I turned the crank a few times to make sure the cylinder walls are lubed. Now every couple of weeks I turn the crankshaft a few times to keep everything moving and well lubed.