Clutch not working

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ian-b
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Clutch not working

Unread post by ian-b » February 5th, 2017, 3:08 pm

Hi all
Well another problem with the mutt rebuild has appeared which has me scratching my poor aching head one of the joys or rebuilding a mutt I guess.
Anyway here we go when I bought the nos engine I replaced all the clutch components and bought a new old stock gear box today I reconnected the drive shafts and here hit a problem.
I have no adjustment in the clutch I can get it into gear but the clutch has no adjustment It does not matter how far in or out I adjust the clutch release rod when I push the clutch peddle down it will not disengage the clutch.
If I look into the clutch housing from underneath(I have removed the bottom cover) I can see the hub and bearing sit in the clutch release arm correctly and on full adjustment with the clutch peddle pushed all the way down the bearing does not quite make contact with the three fingers on the clutch pressure plate, everything seems to be assembled correctly.
Am I missing anything sometimes its easy to miss the obvious.
Secondly the clutch and pressure plate were fitted some months ago at the start of the rebuild and the flywheel plate is very rusted is it possible it might have rusted stuck if so would this cause these symptoms and what is the best way to free it off.
Many thanks
Ian

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Re: Clutch not working

Unread post by Fil Bonica » February 5th, 2017, 3:24 pm

Clutch disk is in backwzrds.

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Re: Clutch not working

Unread post by Horst » February 5th, 2017, 5:02 pm

one side of disk is marked with flywheel side or something similar
Horst

1972 USMC M151A2 w/ROPS (ex Barstow) and M416
1962 M201 and trailer
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Re: Clutch not working

Unread post by rickf » February 5th, 2017, 5:19 pm

If the throwout bearing is not contacting the fingers then it is not the disc, it sounds like a linkage issue. Do you have the correct plastic bushings in the jackshaft and in the block where the shaft attaches? Are all of the linkages tight in the holes, no egged out holes? It sounds like the throwout bearing is not in the holder correctly.

If the clutch is partially disengaged and will slip under load then the disc could be in backwards and the disc hub is bottoming out on the transmission shaft. If that is the case then there will be a gap between the disc and the flywheel at rest. Hope that is not the problem because that will generally damage the disc to the point of needing a replacement.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone

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Re: Clutch not working

Unread post by ian-b » February 5th, 2017, 7:12 pm

Thanks to all for replies all the linkages and cross shaft and nylon washers are all new, having looked at some pictures of clutch release plates on the forum the fingers look to be depressed although all the clutch components are brand new and were fitted over 7 months ago it looks very rusted in there as this is the first time I have attempted to connect the drive shafts and drive is it possible the plate and disk are rusted together? other than that I guess its pull the engine...
Thanks
Ian

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Re: Clutch not working

Unread post by muttguru » February 5th, 2017, 8:11 pm

Ian, you already have been given some good suggestions by the guys here. Did anyone mess about with the adjusters on the pressure plate?
Another problem that was identified a few years ago (can't find the post just yet)...was that the clutch release bearing had been fitted the wrong way around on the drive sleeve, if I remember correctly. Did you assemble the clutch kit to the flywheel? Any pictures of how it looks through the inspection aperture? Is there a clutch disk actually in there? It hasn't been left on the bench somewhere? :D And are you certain that the clutch operating arm is secure on its ball-pivot?
Ken
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Re: Clutch not working

Unread post by rickf » February 6th, 2017, 12:57 pm

Ian, get your head off of the rust. The description does not sound like a rust issue. If it were a rusted plate to flywheel you would see the clutch make contact as soon as the clutch pedal is pushed and then you would see it push away from the pressure plate side but the disc would sty frozen to the flywheel. IF this is the case then get it started and have someone push the vehicle in neutral to get it rolling and pop it in first gear while rolling. Now, push the clutch to the floor and hold it there and while it is there repeatedly hit the gas on and off jerking the vehicle forward and back, on and off the gas all the while with the clutch in. Usually this will cause the rust to break loose. If not then the whole setup has to come out. Was it stored underwater? I can't picture anything outside of ordinary surface rust otherwise. When the transmission was put on did it have to be pulled on to the bell housing with the bolts? Or did it slide home flat with no resistance against the transmission? If those fingers are compressed then it had to have been pulled in with the boltss which is a bad installation and you will find either the throwout bearing is in wrong or the disc is in wrong.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone

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Re: Clutch not working

Unread post by ian-b » February 6th, 2017, 2:29 pm

I have attached some pics of the set up I have removed the bottom cover from the bell housing hopefully pictures in sequence these are taken with the clutch bearing tight against the clutch plate so- peddle fully down, clutch shaft will not meet clutch rod, I have attached so pictures of the hub bearing and fingers in case you can spot anything, when I put the new clutch in all seemed to go back together without any force but as rick says I am beginning to think I might have put the clutch disc in the wrong way round.
Regards Ian
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Re: Clutch not working

Unread post by muttguru » February 6th, 2017, 4:19 pm

Ian,

I found the old post about the clutch and release bearing.
Go here.....read this....especially item (3). viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5410&p=44456&hilit= ... ing#p44456

ps... You know that the clutch operating rod is not connected to the pivot in the picture you've posted, do you? I assume you disconnected it when you were taking a picture? Yes?

ken
Kind regards....
Ken

Always wanted - Details and pictures of M416 Trailer data plates & M151 data plates & body-tags for my research. Thanks!

Contact address - - muttguru@aol.com

Note for 2023..... Ken..."Less Stress - More Exercise!"

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Re: Clutch not working

Unread post by ian-b » February 6th, 2017, 4:53 pm

Hi Ken
I left the clutch operating rod disconnected to the pivot as that is how far it is out of adjustment, the clutch release bearing was against the clutch plate fingers at that point so for me to connect it and push the clutch peddle down I would have to have pushed the clutch peddle down through the floor about half an inch.
Many thanks for the link I have checked item 3 but I am sure the hub, bearing, and clutch release lever are the right way round it would appear I have the old style as the bearing and hub can be pushed together by hand, all the clutch components were brand new, I am really beginning to think I have fitted the clutch disc the wrong way round...
Many thanks Ian

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Re: Clutch not working

Unread post by Mr. Recovery » February 6th, 2017, 5:07 pm

The clutch bearing is indeed on backwards! The end of the bearing with the full shield should face the transmission, it is a little smaller then the rotation bearing end and will fit tight on the last 1/2 inch of the collar.


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Re: Clutch not working

Unread post by ian-b » February 6th, 2017, 6:18 pm

Hi Dan
I am slightly confused now the bearing will move freely up and down the length of the hub sleeve its right back against the hub collar but I can slide it forwards towards the clutch plate fingers by hand, is the actual hub round the wrong way?
Thanks Ian

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Re: Clutch not working

Unread post by Mr. Recovery » February 6th, 2017, 6:54 pm

Hi, it should be "tight" on the transmission end of the sleeve at the fork end. Photobucket is not working right now so I can't pull up any photos for an example. You shouldn't be able to move the bearing on the sleeve once it is pressed on.

Dan.
1960 M151 Run 1
1963 M151 Willys DoD 10-63 in Baltimore
1989 Alley Cat. "work in Progress"
NRA Life Member
American Legion Post 275 Fl
US Army 6 years 2nd Armored Cavalry Bindlach Germany
Colorado Army Nat. Guard 5 years
Md Air Guard 15 years active duty on C-130's

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Re: Clutch not working

Unread post by muttguru » February 6th, 2017, 7:11 pm

Ian,

Dan is correct. The bearing is on the wrong way round. Here's a picture from one of the early TMs... this one is TM9-2805-213-34 Engine Assembly and Clutch. It shows the correct way the bearing should face. The rounded-edge face of the bearing goes towards the transmission. If you look closely at your photo, there's no point in arguing :D

Here's the picture:-

Image

Ken
Kind regards....
Ken

Always wanted - Details and pictures of M416 Trailer data plates & M151 data plates & body-tags for my research. Thanks!

Contact address - - muttguru@aol.com

Note for 2023..... Ken..."Less Stress - More Exercise!"

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Re: Clutch not working

Unread post by rickf » February 6th, 2017, 7:43 pm

It looks to me like the bearing is on the holder backwards. The flat, hardened face of the bearing should be facing the forks on the pressure plate. You have the soft, backside of the bearing against the forks. The disc appears to be fine, although I cannot see the one surface it looks like it is tight on both sides and that if it were backwards than one of two things would happen. Either it would hold the disc away from the flywheel due to the disc hub interfering with the transmission hub. Or the other thing it could do is prevent the clutch from disengaging due to the throwout bearing hitting the disc hub. In this case you can see right off that the throwout bearing is in wrong so you have to take it apart and once you do that be sure to reassemble things in the proper order.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone

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