Starting Problems

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Starting Problems

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Starting Problems

Postby REMESTEVE » September 29th, 2017, 6:55 am

Hi everyone, not been on here for a while however have had quite a few problems with my M151A1 which mostly have been fixed but one still remains. The M151A1 will not start initially and needs some Easy Start to get her going after that she is on the button. What seems to be happening is the fuel is not atomising enough to get her started but runs out of the carb not excessive amounts but it is there. Any ideas please its driving me mad!
1968 Ford M151A1C MUTT
1939 Morris 8 Series E
1960 BSA C15 Star
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Re: Starting Problems

Postby rickf » September 29th, 2017, 7:14 am

The gas will not atomize on startup, is is basically just evaporated gas that starts the engine. It sounds to me like you are flooding it. Pull the choke out and with the switch on crank it til it fires and immediately push the choke in almost all the way and it should start right up. This will usually happen within about five to ten revolutions of the engine. If it tries to start and you leave the choke out it will flood quickly and then you need to push the coke all the way in and floor the gas pedal and leave it floored while cranking until it starts. This clears out the excess gas. And by the way, with this style of carburetor it is normal to see some gas coming out of the mouth of the carb when you stop cranking. That is the accelerator pump dumping a shot of gas as the vacuum collapses. This is normally contained in the air cleaner tube and assists with the next start.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
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Re: Starting Problems

Postby REMESTEVE » September 29th, 2017, 9:38 am

Thanks Rick will give it a try.
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Re: Starting Problems

Postby Challenger2 » September 29th, 2017, 11:04 am

Hi REMESTEVE,
If it is any help...
I thought my A2 was a 'bad' starter (worryingly a previous owner had soldered a pipe onto the air cleaner - for squirt starting?) and after what seemed ages of that M151 starter slowly turning over, I would start to pull out the choke, push in the choke, squirt the foot throttle and fiddle with the hand throttle and then call it a day before going down the failed to start procedures and very soon you have a disassembled truck.

A trawl through this site found I was not alone with a 'bad' starting Mutt, and then I found a post from a member (apologies for not crediting them) whose starting procedure was simply to let that starter turn, and turn and turn while very slowly pushing the choke in to about 1/4". I had nothing to lose and tried it. The assembled audience shook their heads and said it would be flooded, the plugs would be oily, it's the starter, it will drain the battery! But it coughed and started and soon settled down to a nice idle.

Having the bottle to just let that starter keep going when the instinct is to cut it, is perhaps the answer and it has worked for me (of course I can't guarantee the same for you!). These Mutts are probably not 'bad' starters or indifferent starters, they just start different!
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Re: Starting Problems

Postby m3a1 » September 29th, 2017, 5:51 pm

Hmm. Intersting. If I haven't run mine for as long as overnight, first start goes like this -
Depress gas pedal (remember, there is no accelerator pump such as in more modern carbs so pumping the pedal will produce NO results)
Pull choke all the way out and start it
When it catches just let off the gas immediately and put the choke all the way in.

Throughout the day thereafter no choke is required owing to gasoline already in the intake as a residual from shutting the truck down. I suppose it pretty much evaporates during long periods of inactivity.
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Re: Starting Problems

Postby rickf » September 29th, 2017, 7:04 pm

I start mine after it has sat for several months, Turn on switch, pull choke all the way out and push gas pedal down about halfway. Hit starter. Within ten rotations it will fire and I immediately push the choke in halfway and it usually stays running. Sometimes I miss it and have to hit the starter again but if I do it fires instantly. There is absolutely NO reason to have to crank and crank on the starter. If that is the case either the choke is not working or it is flooded. It will fire before it floods, you just have to recognize that if it fires and stalls that you HAVE to push in the choke!
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
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Re: Starting Problems

Postby m3a1 » September 29th, 2017, 8:35 pm

I know you don't wanna go here but add to that, perhaps his timing may be off a just a tick, valves out of adjustment and so on.
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Re: Starting Problems

Postby REMESTEVE » September 30th, 2017, 6:20 am

Thanks everyone for the advice I will try all the various ways and see how I get on, I am sure I will be back on but fingers crossed.
1968 Ford M151A1C MUTT
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Re: Starting Problems

Postby rickf » September 30th, 2017, 8:07 am

If your spark plugs are gas fouled they should be replaced. Gas fouled plugs never seem to run right afterwards unless cleaned in a plug cleaner.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
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Re: Starting Problems

Postby Vzike » September 30th, 2017, 6:07 pm

Its been said here over and over, but make sure you depress your gas pedal BEFORE you pulls out the choke. dragging the chock cam over the adjusting screw wears down the cam and make it ineffective. I have a bunch of old carbs with choke cams that look like they have been ground down.
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Re: Starting Problems

Postby Horst » October 1st, 2017, 3:59 am

My take on repeating known advice :) :

Do a quick check on the ignition timing with a timing light. My timing was a little off and since adjusting it, it also starts way better. If it would not start after longer cranking and pulled choke, I always have to floor the throttle and it would start. This condition is now significantly less often happening.
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1966 Pontiac GTO
1987 Suzuki Samurai
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Re: Starting Problems

Postby m3a1 » October 1st, 2017, 4:01 pm

Back in the day, we Ohio farm boys would set timing in a very basic, non technical way. A couple of guys would be needed to do this. One guy to turn the key (or push the button if you happened to be working on a tractor and such) and the other to adjust the distributor.

Upon turning over the engine, the guy would move the distributor until it fired up (presupposing most of the other boxes were checked...things like having fuel flow, all the plug wires where they belonged, etc. When it fired, you knew you were in the neighborhood of "proper" timing. Then it was a matter of degrees - turning the distributor a bit this way and that until the sweet spot was attained.

Not very technical and in no way scientific but you do what you have to do when you don't have all the right tools or you're miles away from the barn. It also had not a thing to do with what other problems an engine might be hiding so, your mileage may vary. Not available in all fifty states. 5 cents upon return, except in Wisconsin, Michigan & Illinois.

Cheers,
TJ
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Re: Starting Problems

Postby rickf » October 1st, 2017, 6:23 pm

m3a1 wrote:Back in the day, we Ohio farm boys would set timing in a very basic, non technical way. A couple of guys would be needed to do this. One guy to turn the key (or push the button if you happened to be working on a tractor and such) and the other to adjust the distributor.

Upon turning over the engine, the guy would move the distributor until it fired up (presupposing most of the other boxes were checked...things like having fuel flow, all the plug wires where they belonged, etc. When it fired, you knew you were in the neighborhood of "proper" timing. Then it was a matter of degrees - turning the distributor a bit this way and that until the sweet spot was attained.

Not very technical and in no way scientific but you do what you have to do when you don't have all the right tools or you're miles away from the barn. It also had not a thing to do with what other problems an engine might be hiding so, your mileage may vary. Not available in all fifty states. 5 cents upon return, except in Wisconsin, Michigan & Illinois.

Cheers,
TJ


Well............ He is in the UK so I guess he is safe. The general rule of thumb is you should be able to put two fingers between the distributor wire connector and the oil filter, That will get you close enough to run.
His is running though so I strongly advise not playing with the distributor with it not running. The timing should be checked, along with the valve clearance and points if you have them.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
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Re: Starting Problems

Postby Grasshopper » October 2nd, 2017, 8:34 am

Steve,

My A2 requires full choke to fire if not started for a while. I push it back in as soon as she fires and then all subsequent starts are without choke (until left to sit for more than a week) as other have stated. You know she's a good'un as you had a look over in August!

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Re: Starting Problems

Postby Kansasbobcat » November 28th, 2017, 8:10 pm

M151A2 refused to start. Finally gave up and ordered a rebuilt carb from Brooks. Started right up after install. No choke or gas pedal. Started hot or cold. Money well spent!
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