Brake Hardware Question

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Brake Hardware Question

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Brake Hardware Question

Postby m75 » January 5th, 2018, 1:57 pm

Last year I ordered a service brake shoe set and hardware from FLMV. While inspoecting the material today, I notied the following:

Shoes are bonded type, no rivets, part# 19207-11669180.

Hardware bag contains white brake springs, black anchor springs and the anchors.

The TM -20-1-2, para 8-12 states "Anytime riveted brakeshoes are replaced with bonded brakeshoes, discard brake adjusters and brake springs with blue color-coded parts provided in kit".

Can the FLMV-supplied springs be used on the bonded shoes, from a realistic point of view? And are there blue color-coded adjusters available? I can't recall seeing them before.
Jim Peterson
SGM, 31B Retired 2015
1961 M151 -Sold
1974 M151A2, Working It!
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Re: Brake Hardware Question

Postby rickf » January 5th, 2018, 3:38 pm

I have asked this question more times than I can remember. I have asked what is the difference between the white and blue besides the manufacturer. I have never received a good answer. I am using bonded shoes with the old hard ware and have been for years. Then again, I am also running 1 inch wheel cylinders on the front of an A1 and all the old timers ( I sure ain't young!) were screaming that I was going to die on the first trip out. This vehicle has never stopped better and in one instance where I was cut off and had to lock up the brakes it stopped perfectly straight. Lets see you do that with the stock setup!
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Re: Brake Hardware Question

Postby Fil Bonica » January 5th, 2018, 9:16 pm

The correct adjusters and sprngs are on gov-surplus right now.
There is a pic of instructions indicating use of blue parts on both bonded and rveted shoes.
If I were you I would err on the conservative side and call Jeff for the correct hardware.

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Re: Brake Hardware Question

Postby muttguru » January 6th, 2018, 6:23 am

Fil Bonica wrote:If I were you I would err on the conservative side and call Jeff for the correct hardware.


Agreed. There's a reason for using the blue hardware............
Ken
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Re: Brake Hardware Question

Postby rickf » January 6th, 2018, 9:24 am

And that reason is? This may sound redundant but nobody has an answer. Is it anything more than a change of vendor who decided to paint their hardware blue? When I put the bonded shoes on mine there was no blue hardware to be had so I reused the white that was on there. I have since picked up some blue hardware and compared it to several of the white kits I have and I cannot find any difference besides the color.
Sorry, but I like to know the technical reason something has to be changed other than "it just has to". With no technical reasoning behind it then it just sounds like a politically connected vendor that wanted HIS products instead of the other guy. More product used, more money in pocket.

Maybe it was the same vendor that sold the bonded brake shoes? Did you ever see a riveted shoe come off of the backing? Neither have I. Bonded? Many times.
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Re: Brake Hardware Question

Postby Fil Bonica » January 6th, 2018, 10:34 am

It’s your choice.

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Re: Brake Hardware Question

Postby muttguru » January 6th, 2018, 5:00 pm

Fil Bonica wrote:It’s your choice.Fil Bonica


I still agree with Fil. And there really is a valid reason...but you're gonna have to work at this one..... :D :D :D
Ken
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Re: Brake Hardware Question

Postby rickf » January 6th, 2018, 6:22 pm

Well, It is going down to below zero tonight and not coming back up for a few more days and I have other projects that need to go in the garage. But being the fact that it is a brake issue I think the reasons really should be brought to light if they are known.
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12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
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Re: Brake Hardware Question

Postby paracord » January 7th, 2018, 3:30 am

I had a post where I had a front brake grabbing and I also was told I was using the wrong color of springs. I needed some brake shoe spring retainer clips so I bought some spring kits from O'Riellys that had white springs ,so I contacted the manufacture and wanted to know the difference between the blue and white springs for I didn't see any difference between the two. The man said there are none, both the springs are the same. Paint color is the only thing different between the two.
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Re: Brake Hardware Question

Postby paracord » January 7th, 2018, 3:30 am

I had a post where I had a front brake grabbing and I also was told I was using the wrong color of springs. I needed some brake shoe spring retainer clips so I bought some spring kits from O'Riellys that had white springs ,so I contacted the manufacture and wanted to know the difference between the blue and white springs for I didn't see any difference between the two. The man said there are none, both the springs are the same. Paint color is the only thing different between the two.
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Re: Brake Hardware Question

Postby surpdlr » January 7th, 2018, 11:23 am

m75 wrote:Last year I ordered a service brake shoe set and hardware from FLMV. While inspoecting the material today, I notied the following:

Shoes are bonded type, no rivets, part# 19207-11669180.

Hardware bag contains white brake springs, black anchor springs and the anchors.

The TM -20-1-2, para 8-12 states "Anytime riveted brakeshoes are replaced with bonded brakeshoes, discard brake adjusters and brake springs with blue color-coded parts provided in kit".

Can the FLMV-supplied springs be used on the bonded shoes, from a realistic point of view? And are there blue color-coded adjusters available? I can't recall seeing them before.


m75 wrote:Last year I ordered a service brake shoe set and hardware from FLMV. While inspoecting the material today, I notied the following:

Shoes are bonded type, no rivets, part# 19207-11669180.

Hardware bag contains white brake springs, black anchor springs and the anchors.

The TM -20-1-2, para 8-12 states "Anytime riveted brakeshoes are replaced with bonded brakeshoes, discard brake adjusters and brake springs with blue color-coded parts provided in kit".

Can the FLMV-supplied springs be used on the bonded shoes, from a realistic point of view? And are there blue color-coded adjusters available? I can't recall seeing them before.


Thanks to Mutt Guru for pointing this post out to me!

1st - Gee thanks for contacting me DIRECTLY to ask this question...... (That is sarcasm if anybody wondered!!)

2nd, Your order shipped on 10 July 2015...... No contact from you since then.

3rd, and MOST important, you ordered 1 axel's worth of the HOLD DOWN KIT (FLMV-151-0001), A kit I build for M151 jeep owners to hold the brake shoes to the backing plate. It does NOT contain adjuster hardware!
Image


Meanwhile your question is about the ADJUSTER Kit (2530-01-060-7171, 5704889) which has NOTHING to do with the hold downs!!
Image


I do not know how may times I have answered this question on line, and you got some GOOD advice when you were told to contact me, but here goes the answer one more time:


This info applies to the ADJUSTER HARDWARE ONLY: Blue hardware for bonded. Adjuster collapses more, and spring is shorter by a bit.... Different lengths to take into account the thicker linings on the bonded shoes.

I hope this puts your mind at ease, and provides the explanation some of you have forgotten over the years.

And yes, I sell the correct multi use adjusters in new surplus kits. Contact me for a price.
JEFF HAIN-MATSON
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WRIGHTSVILLE PA
717-252-4489

M151 2B6965 DOD DEC 1960 / BODY # 493 (Amongst others)
INDIAN 741
INDIAN 841
MATCHLESS G3
MATCHLESS G3L
AND SEVERAL OTHER WHEELED AND TRACKED TOYS!!

MVPA #1833
IMPS #1726
MVT #9362
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Re: Brake Hardware Question

Postby Fil Bonica » January 7th, 2018, 12:15 pm

A good explanation to remember.

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Re: Brake Hardware Question

Postby Hambone » January 7th, 2018, 12:38 pm

Good to know official info, BRAKES are KINDA important.
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Re: Brake Hardware Question

Postby muttguru » January 7th, 2018, 1:52 pm

I said there was a good reason.
The instruction came from the US Army Tank-Automotive R&D Command and was dated 09-Jan-1977.
The instruction says that the blue kit will work with both types of brake shoes (bonded & riveted) but it goes on to say that if you use BONDED shoes, you MUST use the blue kit. Note the word MUST, not CAN. Thanks Jeff.
Ken :D
Kind regards....
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Re: Brake Hardware Question

Postby rickf » January 7th, 2018, 5:24 pm

OK, FINALLY, a definitive answer to the question.
I can see where this could be an issue with new drums and the new shoes if they are thicker. You might not be able to get the drums over the shoes due to the adjusters not coming in far enough. My drums were not new so that is probably why I did not have any problems. So basically it is not a safety issue as much as it is a fitment issue. That should make a lot of people that are running the white adjuster with bonded shoes feel better. I know I have the white springs but to be perfectly honest I am not sure about the adjusters, I am going to guess they are also the white ones since the hardware was all bought as a kit many years ago.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
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