transfer case

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Re: transfer case

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Re: transfer case

Postby rickf » May 3rd, 2018, 6:53 am

And I am pretty sure that can be repaired from the access plate on the side of the transmission.
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Re: transfer case

Postby Hambone » May 3rd, 2018, 8:48 am

Here are a couple pics of engaged and disengaged, is your fork moving when you engage yours, does the spring have good tension, while turning the input shaft, check what is happening with the linkage.

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Re: transfer case

Postby m3a1 » May 3rd, 2018, 4:41 pm

rickf wrote:How, or why, did we go from the transfer shifter to the reverse idler shaft? Now he will REALLY be confused!


Just a sidebar comment because who knows what else will happen when that thing is out.

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Re: transfer case

Postby incoming » May 3rd, 2018, 10:14 pm

Mr. Pizzoferrato,
We think the same way! Now that you have explained HOW the fork works and what it engages, I will be able to get out my manual and follow your explanation using the diagrams to really get an understanding of what to do. Hambone, thanks for the pics. The fork does not move even though the shaft does. The spring is putting pressure on the fork but apparently not enough to push the dog clutch to engage rearward. Rickf, what repair are you talking about that I can do through the window that would fix the four wheel drive?
I really do appreciate the time and effort you guys put into helping me out.
Thanks again!
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Re: transfer case

Postby svramselaar » May 4th, 2018, 12:44 am

hi

the fork can go free over the shaft

there are two spring rings one at the front and one at the rear of the fork
if you engage the four wheel drive you press the spring till the spring can push the collar inside to four wheel drive (the teeth can get inline at the axles inside )
so the front spring ring at the spring side is for four wheel drive in
the other ring take the fork to the front this is two wheel drive
take the rings out the grooves and you can get the shift axle out with the fork ( the rings slide over the axle )
try if the collar go to four wheel drive wen turning the front or rear drive flange
put it together with new rings and it works
if you have the axle out put a new seal at the front

george
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Re: transfer case

Postby rickf » May 4th, 2018, 7:20 am

What George said, If you take the shifter off and then you take the circlips loose and move them to the rear of their grooves you can slide the shaft out the front of the case. The front clip will eventually snap into the rear groove and have to be released to the rear also but then the shaft will slide out. Keep everything in order of assembly, put in a new seal (very important because it is next to impossible to do with the shaft in) Then put on you new circlip and all of the rest of the parts and the other new clip. This is a lot easier than taking the entire transmission and transfer case apart.
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12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
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Re: transfer case

Postby rickf » May 4th, 2018, 7:27 am

George, here is a question for you. If he leaves the front circlip in it's groove and only removes the rear clip can't he slide the shaft forward and then grip the shaft in the shifter slot and gently tap on it and use the clip to push the seal out? If that is the case then he should not have to remove the clip, washer or spring until the shaft is out of the case. Only the rear clip and the shift fork from inside the case. I have not done it this way but looking at the picture it looks feasible and if replacing the clips then damage to the clip is not an issue. Tap gently so you don't damage the clip groove.
1964 M151A1
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AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
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Re: transfer case

Postby D Pizzoferrato » May 4th, 2018, 8:06 am

If both clips are in the grooves and the fork won't move; have you tried spinning the front and rear outputs to try to align (synchronize) the teeth and splines of the clutch and shaft? You need to have these parts in motion (even ever so slightly) to allow alignment. At rest, in a new transmission, there is likely enough tolerance built in, that the parts will have enough backlash clearance to engage. In a used transmission, of unknown history, any gunk or junk collected in the bottom of the case would cause interference with the sequence. You still have ample opportunity to work things out without tearing into the transmission.

Have you tried assisting the fork with a screwdriver or small pry bar? A LITTLE leverage may help get things moving.

When you drained the transmission, what foreign stuff presented itself in the oil? Have you made any attempt at doing a thorough flush of the transmission? You could put the access cover back on with a temporary homemade gasket and fill the trans with a mix of ATF and Acetone, or diesel fuel, or mineral spirits and work the outputs and shift forks by hand to see what kind of junk comes loose. You could easily weld up a plate to bolt onto the output flange to hook an electric drill to and spin up the trans to help with the flush.

If all of this fails, then you could remove the cir-clips and pull the shaft to get an eye on the dog clutch. I'm pretty sure that you won't get to this point if you work methodically through the above.
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Re: transfer case

Postby incoming » May 4th, 2018, 8:23 pm

OK guys, here's the deal. Got the tranny on my workbench so I could get a good look inside the window to the transfer rod. The clips and spring are in place but the fork would not move back to engage the dog clutch even though the assembly moves freely. SO I took a small punch and lightly dinged on the fork. To my surprise it snapped back into the clutch dog and engaged the front wheel drive output shaft!!!!! And the four wheel drive works (on the bench anyway). I worked the fork back and forth by tapping it and it started shifting in and out of four wheel drive. Maybe it was stuck for a while. Here's the catch....the fork will hang up about two out of every five shifts from 2 to 4 wheel drive. A gentle tap will cause it to engage as it should. It seems like if the shifter handle is pushed too far back, it passes the point of return and I have to tap it again to engage. However, if I gently shift it forward and back it works flawlessly with a "CLUNK" as it engages. Now that I know the four wheel drive works, I just have to figure out why the fork gets stuck in the disengage position randomly. Maybe the spring is too weak? But is doesn't seem to be weak. It is frustrating because there is just a small position that causes the fork to get stuck. I wonder if just working it back and forth many, many times will smooth the action?

Well, it is good new that when the four wheel drive is engaged it works well with no grinds or catches.

Ideas?
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Re: transfer case

Postby svramselaar » May 4th, 2018, 11:56 pm

hi

Rickf if i look at the spring and seal the chance is can work
to know exact you must get the diameter from the seal spring and rings

if the collar is sticking at four wheel drive it can be it is never used
if you shift it and out several time`s at the road (sand or dirt ) it can be better go in and out after a while


george
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Re: transfer case

Postby incoming » May 5th, 2018, 12:19 am

Gentlemen,
I just ordered a new kit with shaft, spring, circlips, spacer, seal and fork. I'm just going to replace it all! My question is, and you may not know unless you have done it yourself, can the fork be removed through the window, without having to tear the tranny down. If not, I'll just replace everything except the fork. Thank you kindly for all of the great posts!!
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Re: transfer case

Postby D Pizzoferrato » May 5th, 2018, 6:21 am

I think, at this point, you are unnecessarily changing parts. The fork and associated parts are likely not your problem. The clutch bell isn't freely slipping along the splines of the shaft. A good cleaning and working it back and forth will likely cure the problem.
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Re: transfer case

Postby rickf » May 5th, 2018, 6:28 pm

From the sounds of it the shift for or the gear is just hanging a bit on the shaft. You don't have any oil in there and you JUST got it broken loose so it needs to get things loosened up. It is also quite possible that those times it does not slide right it that the gears have moved just a hair. Have you tried rotating the shafts a bit instead of tapping on it? It may just be on the edge of a gear tooth. That is the whole purpose of that spring, to hold pressure on the shift fork until the gears line up and then they will pop in. I agree with Dave that you are replacing a lot of parts for nothing, if it is doing what I think it is doing then it will do the same thing with new parts. But to answer your question, yes the shaft comes out the front of the case. See our comments about that above.
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AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
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Re: transfer case

Postby incoming » May 5th, 2018, 8:54 pm

Gentlemen,
Have tried turning the output shafts with the four wheel drive engaged to synchronize them with clutch dog and there is no amount of turning the input shaft that will cause the clutch dog to engage. They don't even scrape or make any kind of contact sound. I'm going to thoroughly clean out the whole case with thinner as suggested about and flush it out. Will also replace the parts since I have ordered them and see how that goes. That should cover every aspect of repairing the mechanism. I found out that the fork will come out of the window in the side. I'll let you guys, who have been SO helpful, how it turns out.
Gratefully,
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Re: transfer case

Postby incoming » May 6th, 2018, 10:03 pm

I got a new seal for where the shaft comes out of the transfer case. Should the new seal be put in before replacing the shaft, fork, spring, etc, or should I put the seal in after everything has been replaced? Thanks in advance.
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Testing the limits of what little mechanical ability I do have.
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