Mine died today

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Mine died today

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Mine died today

Postby kmam » May 24th, 2018, 4:09 am

I drove to a mates place some 35km away by highway at speeds around 50mph. All went well. We then headed bush, me in my A2 and him in his GPW, for some 30km. Pulled up for about half an hour and then, disaster. Mine started and ran really rough for a while but became undrivable. Checked fuel flow, spark (looked a little weak) and then decided it had to be a carbie problem. Pulld it off and horoughly checked it but no joy. Did all this a couple of more times and on the final occasion it gave a couple of half-hearted kicks then nothing. After that it would not kick at all and would not jump start.

Towed it back to his place and now have to find the problem. I am inclined to think it is the coil. Is this a good guess? Either way I need to get a coupke of spare coils and another set of plugs so would appreciate advice on the best source for them.

Howard
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Re: Mine died today

Postby rickf » May 24th, 2018, 8:07 am

I would say the coil went out on it. As I am sure you know the Chinese coils are crap. Supposedly the last group of coils that Reomie had made are better quality but I have not been able to get any verification either by actual use or meter readings. Spark plugs are best guess as to where to get them. E-bay probably your best bet. They have gotten really expensive lately.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
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Re: Mine died today

Postby kmam » May 26th, 2018, 2:04 am

I have ordered a new coil which I need if the old one is crook and I need as a spare if the old one is OK.

The old one reads 6 ohms between the two small connections and 15.22KOhms between the connection to the rotor and the negative small connection. There is no reading between the connection to the rotor and the metal case.

The coil is labeled "19207-11663066 FOR 24 VOLT SYSTEM MFG. 61689"

From this I gather the coil is OK? If so then I may need to replace the Swiss electronic ignition (it is only a couple of years old and the MUTT has only been driven a little in that time). I noticed a reasonable amount of clean oil at the bottom of the distributor below the coil. Not sure what this means but could be me being overenthusiastic oiling the shaft...

Howard
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Re: Mine died today

Postby rickf » May 26th, 2018, 5:41 am

Those readings on the coil are perfect and the date would indicate an original USA manufactured coil so I think the problem is probably the module. Something you might consider is to get yourself another distributor set up with points and have it in your emergency box so that if this happens again all you need to do is pop out the bad and put in the good. Points are quite reliable and eliminate trying to diagnose electronic problems. You really need a good spares box and the tools to do the work if you are going to be going out in the bush.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
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Re: Mine died today

Postby Fil Bonica » May 26th, 2018, 10:32 am

Before you go any farther go back and see if there is power to the coil.
There is a bypass capacitor feeding the coil that has solid wire.
They are known to fail because of a break or coukd be intermittant.
Typically Swiss controls modules are bullet proof and rarely fail.
Is it Original gi or a repro. Wouldnt trust it if it were repro.
Rick’s idea of a points ignition is a good one.
Back fitting it from electronics may be an issue.
Good luck.

Fil Bonica
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Re: Mine died today

Postby kmam » May 26th, 2018, 3:58 pm

Thanks guys. I will trailer my MUTT home on Tuesday and then check it all out.
Howard

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Re: Mine died today

Postby m3a1 » May 26th, 2018, 4:16 pm

My experience with a capacitor problem was that everything ran just fine until I shut it off and then it would not restart. Only after everything would cool would it restart. Take what you want from that little story but your troubles do not sound like what I experienced.

Cheers,
TJ
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Re: Mine died today

Postby kmam » May 27th, 2018, 2:52 am

The MUTT is not here at the moment so I can't have a look. I have checked the wiring diagram and I can see the capacitor for the standard ignition but am not sure where or why there is one for electronic ignition?

Howard
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Re: Mine died today

Postby kmam » May 27th, 2018, 5:56 am

I may have found the problem. Before I took the coil out I took some photos as a precaution against incorrect re-assembly. I have been looking at the Swiss module installation instructions and the photos and notice the module wires should be between the clamp and the coil but in the photos I see they are between the clamp and the rotor. The rotor appears to be displaced which could cause the sensor to trigger the circuit erratically or not at all and the wire insulation may be damaged.

That could also explain the occasional miss when idling and some strange variations when setting the timing.

I cannot examine it until Tuesday and anxiously wait until then to discover if it is the cause!

Howard

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kmam
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Re: Mine died today

Postby Fil Bonica » May 27th, 2018, 9:33 am

The filter capacitor is inline with the main feed to the distributor.
It is there to filter noise from radio.
I mistakenly called it a bypass cap.
Your pics of the wiring are a good areas to inspect.
Not much room there and chafing of wires could be the problem.
Its good you had them to look at in advance

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Re: Mine died today

Postby rickf » May 27th, 2018, 9:50 am

You can also see where the wires have been pinched between the cap and the hold down clamp. It is possible that there is a short on the bottom side of the wire but not all that likely since the wire is not burned. But definitely check to see if you have power coming in to that black wire. Also look very closely to see if there is a carbon track between the coil post and that same black wire at the positive terminal on the coil. The reason I say that is because the black wire terminal is too far over towards the center of the coil and I see some discoloration on the tower.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
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Re: Mine died today

Postby kmam » May 29th, 2018, 5:41 am

Well, it's got me beat! It still does not start, not even a kick apart from one small backfire through the carbie. This is what has happened...

Distributor: Checked 24V at the input to the distributor - good. Checked the spark on each plug - good. Changed the plugs - no difference. Checked that none of the wires in the distributor are damaged - OK. Relocated the wires in the distributor to their correct location on the bracket. Checked continuity in the cap from the coil to the rotor - good. Checked all over for carbon tracks or other signs of problems - all OK. Checked that the plug leads are in the firing order 1, 3, 4, 2 and that is clockwise looking down on the distributor. Checked that the rotor is at about 1 o'clock when cylinder one is ready to fire - OK.

Carbie: Several times pulled apart, checked and cleaned everything - good.

Fuel: Checked tank - plenty of fuel. Checked all filters - good. Checked fuel flow to carbie - good. Checked fuel flow from carbie back to tank - good.

Ignition timing: Have not checked as my timing light and leads were not with me. However confirmed that the distributor is still firmly in the location where I last set the timing.

Just as a reminder, it drove fine at about 50mph for around 3/4 hour. It drove fine at slower speeds in the bush but at idle wanted to stall. When it had been turned off and sitting for about 1/2 hour it would not start and that has been the case ever since.

The engine just will not kick. I have even put fuel straight into the carbie without any kick. On the last time I did that it did one backfire and that is all. I am not sure where to look next. Any thoughts?
Howard

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Re: Mine died today

Postby m3a1 » May 29th, 2018, 11:15 am

Pull the distributor cap and make sure the rotor is turning with the engine turning over. I know this sounds really basic and frankly, it is. If the mechanical aspects of timing are correct and everything is doing what it's supposed to be doing, then you're back to electrical stuff.

I'm hoping it's only the capacitor because that is what it sounds like to me. For a few bucks, you could get a new one and rule that out. I know we don't like to spend money to rule stuff out but, if you find it isn't the capacitor, at least you'll have a spare to put in your kit.

I know other guys have discounted that possibility but mine wouldn't start with a bad capacitor and that's all I have to say about that.

Cheers,
TJ
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Re: Mine died today

Postby rickf » May 29th, 2018, 12:58 pm

Did you buy any chance just get gas right before this happened? Bad load of gas? Have you had the intake hose and verified that you actually have gas going into the carburetor? With the choke on it should run out of the moth of the carb. If not float may have hung up or dirt in the main jet. Or water in the carb. Pull the drain plug out of the bowl and see what comes out.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
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Re: Mine died today

Postby IDUNNO » May 29th, 2018, 3:36 pm

Hello Howard,
If you confirmed you have spark and fuel you may want to check the valves, maybe a pushrod popped out of place.
Kind regards
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