wheel drive shafts

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wheel drive shafts

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wheel drive shafts

Postby dr. trinkmann » October 22nd, 2018, 5:05 pm

Gentlemen,
i have - if i'm allowed to - another question:

Doing a grease job the past weekend i found a noticeably play between the two parts of the wheel drive shafts. Both sides (drivers & co-drivers) are affected, but, of course, only the rear axle ones.
Are they known to wear evenly with the short (female) and the long (male) part of the drive shaft or is any of theese two parts known to wear out more than the other?
I'm asking because there's a guy who sells a bunch of NOS female halfes. So does it make any sense to buy only the female halfes if the price is nice?
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Re: wheel drive shafts

Postby rickf » October 22nd, 2018, 6:41 pm

That is not something I have seen all that often is the shafts worn that bad. If they are that loose then I would replace both halves since the splines are probably worn on both.
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Re: wheel drive shafts

Postby dr. trinkmann » October 23rd, 2018, 12:40 am

Ahh...don't get me wrong.
Play isn't that bad and only in radial direction.
Imagine: when the wheels are on ground i can turn the outer shaft (at the differential side) a bit back and forth.
Not that much but still noticeable.
With axial direction the parts slide smoothly together.
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Re: wheel drive shafts

Postby Horst » October 23rd, 2018, 2:53 pm

if it is really the shaft and not one or both of the universal joints, I would replace the whole assembly, not just one half. The universal joints are a weak point of the 151 and not only wear, they also have been failing.
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Re: wheel drive shafts

Postby dr. trinkmann » October 23rd, 2018, 5:49 pm

Due to 'excessive care' by the pre-owner some of the universal Joints had to be replaced soon after the vehicle came to me.
So they shouldn't be bad actually.

Interesting:
The grease fittings of the new (Repro) u-Joints don't fit very well with all my (as well new) pumping-grease guns. Most of the grease is oozing out between Fitting and mouthpiece.
I get the best results with an old and simple push greasegun. What are your experiences with greaseguns and fittings/u-joints?

Meanwhile i learned that theese repros aren't very durable. Therefore i now have a couple of used, but fair conditioned originals on stock.
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Re: wheel drive shafts

Postby rickf » October 23rd, 2018, 7:50 pm

I use a needle type grease gun that has a blunt pointed tip that presses against the hole in the grease fitting and can fit in the smallest areas. Works great.
1964 M151A1
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12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
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Re: wheel drive shafts

Postby m3a1 » October 24th, 2018, 12:16 pm

To answer your question, NO, do not buy one half. However unlikely, IF there is wear contributing to this problem in the manner you suggest, it will be found on both male and female ends.

I have seen both ends offered for sale and as a whole NOS and often, with new U joints which makes them a pretty good bargain. No doubt some of the hoarders here may even have some extra used shafts they'd be willing to part with.

The problems you describe are very unusual (and what is 'excessive maintenance?') so, my next question is, are you SURE that is the problem? You can find plenty about inspecting and bringing used axle drive shafts back to life in my post on the Alley Cat, here - viewtopic.php?f=27&t=8354&start=105

I would suggest pulling them out, taking them apart and cleaning them up so as to see precisely what you have going on there.

Adding to this post with an edit as something just occurred to me. Are you sure the problem is with the axle drive shaft? Shafts that are poorly maintained and then as a result cannot change their length as the suspension moves up and down will play merry hell with the yokes on the differential (to which they attach). I have had this exact problem and had to replace the yoke (which are rather inexpensive). Simply put, it is the yoke that begins to wobble. DO check that!!

Cheers,
TJ
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Re: wheel drive shafts

Postby rickf » October 24th, 2018, 7:13 pm

TJ, Keep in mind he is in Germany so parts are not quite as cheap as they are here. And probably not as plentiful.
1964 M151A1
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12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
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Re: wheel drive shafts

Postby dr. trinkmann » October 25th, 2018, 12:48 am

'excessive care' means: pre-owner did not lube that much that he should have done :(
All theese 4 wheel drive shafts have been removed, disassembled cleaned and inspected shaft by shaft over the past two years by myself.
Demaged u-Joints were relaced and all the parts were relubed, so all shafts slide well in axial direction and all the u-Joints sould be still in good condition.
Only with the rear axle ones i registered a tiny bit radial (torsion) play affected to 99% 'two wheel rear drive' i assume.
The play is not with the u-Joints but with the gearing of the inner and outer shaft and hard to say how much...maybe 1/2 degree.
NOS Parts are available here...but amount for complete shaft is about €250.-
Not that 'peanuts' like you might use to say.


Another question that might belong lo this:

Can the joints of that propeller shafts be lubed within the vehicle or do they have to be removed?
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Re: wheel drive shafts

Postby rickf » October 25th, 2018, 6:36 am

I lube all of my shafts in the vehicle using the grease gun adapter mentioned above. Leaving for dr.s appointment in a couple minutes but will put a link to it when I get back.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
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Re: wheel drive shafts

Postby m3a1 » October 25th, 2018, 7:37 pm

The answer is, It Depends. To paraphrase Rick, 'size matters.'

When I replaced mine I found that I had a couple of U joints turned around, meaning those particular U joints could have been greased with a normal, everyday grease gun with a normal everyday tip if I had installed them the other way around -but- those were not NOS U joints.. There ARE smaller tips available that will get you in there no matter what U joint you have selected or how you have it installed and hey,....everybody likes new tools. Maybe it's time to invest in a new tip for your grease gun?

Cheers,
TJ
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Re: wheel drive shafts

Postby rickf » October 26th, 2018, 9:26 am

Here is what I use, I have one grease gun with this adapter mounted on it. You can also get this as one that has a regular grease fitting on one end and the needle on the other but they are hard to hold all together and sloppy in use. This one is perfect for those tight to get to fittings. It will work on any fitting as well so if this is the only gun with grease in it, then you can still grease the entire vehicle.

https://www.amazon.com/Lincoln-Lubricat ... TX74CGDRCC
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
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Re: wheel drive shafts

Postby dr. trinkmann » November 30th, 2018, 11:28 am

Gentlemen,
just one more time to come back to theese wheel drive shafts - and the play within them:

Got under the vehicle today and took some videos from both side rear shafts.
So I hope You now can estimate if they are worn out and should be replaced or not.

For the videos the emergency break was disengaged and all wheels were on ground.

https://www.magentacloud.de/lnk/ouLPrYfH
https://www.magentacloud.de/lnk/cIrPrArt
https://www.magentacloud.de/lnk/AeLPLHNO
https://www.magentacloud.de/lnk/xyrvrxUW

Thank you for your advice
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Re: wheel drive shafts

Postby rickf » December 1st, 2018, 1:30 pm

I don't see anything there that would scare me away from using those axle shafts. I have one question, on the video of the spline play is this after greasing the splines? If yes then I would say they have some wear on them and to keep an eye out for spares when you see them at the sales. If before grease then that would be completely acceptable. Either way they are not going to fail you. The U-joints are the weak points in these axles, I have never heard of and axle slide or spline breaking. In the last video the yoke for the U-joint looks like it was beat up from a u-joint failure and it was flailing around and banging on things. As long as the cups fit in tightly this is not an issue.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
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12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
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Re: wheel drive shafts

Postby dr. trinkmann » December 1st, 2018, 3:31 pm

Hello Rick and thanks for your reply.
The first two clips are two different shafts (drivers + co-drivers side) as well as the last two clips are.
As the english language is not my native, could you please explain a bit further:

All the shafts had been greased up some days ago and only some Yards were driven after that when the clips were recorded.
Which shaft would you keep an eye on? 1st or 2nd clip? And - what is much more interesting for me - why?
Why are the u-joints the weakest point? I'm driving my mutt for only 2 1/2 years now, but did not have a problem with an u-joint ever.
I don't know what caused the damage to the yoke in the last clip. Was already there when the car came to me. The cups are still seated well as far as I can evaluate.

Rick, did I understand you right: you state that the radial play (twisting the two parts of the shaft with each other) is in an normal range?

Thanks a lot again.
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