Lift, bigger tires

[r335e]

I recently fell in love with the m151. I've done my research and I understand the rollover tendencies of the m151. Nevertheless, I'm hoping to put a lift on one after restoring one and putting on larger tires. While It may not be keeping with the aesthetic of the vehicle, a lift is something of a status symbol down here in georgia . Anyone see a way to reverse the obvious negative effect of a lift on a rollover prone vehicle?

[Rainman]

OMG! It's Bubba himself!

Hey r335e, just kidding, and welcome to the board. I'm sure we'll get into physics and the laws of gravity with this one. You talking height and width, or just height. Modern tires have obvious advantages over NDCC.

Rainman

[r335e]

Yes, it’s true. I am a bubba remodeler.

Both height and width would be taken into account. I will be putting on modern tires regardless of whether I do the lift or not to increase the handling. My conception is that if I go ahead and do the lift and put on modern tires, the increased tire width will compensate for the lift and add some handling due to the very low height of the m151 (no ROPS).

Just looking for a second opinion, and maybe some criticism “how dare you disgrace the m151 with a lift!” just for kicks.

[rickf]

Well we will leave the butchering of another Military vehicle for another time. I used to own a four wheel drive shop and have built many types of vehicles. If there is one thing I learned it is that physics will always win. If you go up you also have to go out to maintain the center of gravity. When you go out you will be stressing the bearings something terrible. Next on the list is bigger tires on already marginal brakes. And last but not least is the bigger tires and no way to change gear ratios to compensate. Don't forget the massive amount of power you have there. All 71 HP. You need to get in touch with Mutt-vet. He has already been through all of this and I really do not want to be spending a lot of time rehashing it. I will tell you the same thing I told him, buy a CJ and save yourself thousands of dollars.

Rick

[MUTT Vet]

I'm hoping to put a lift on one after restoring one and putting on larger tires.

I've tried that. Disaster!!!

I spent many months "sternly discussing" the subject with the board and given many examples of why it's not a good idea.

I'm very stubborn and hang out with Bleddyn too much. So I had to do it for myself and found out the hard way.

First issue will be with the lift. With the independant front and rear suspension, it will be impossible to find a ready made lift...i spent a long time calling people, looking online, and taking my Mutt to off road shops, there isn't a lift that will work.

So it will have to be a custum made set up that will cost a few grand.

Secondly, I didn't lift my mutt because of the price, but i did put the bigger tires on. And that too was a disaster.

With the wider tires you would think it would increase the handling...it doesn't! The mutt was desinged with the 700 x 16 tire in mind. I would get a slight wobble with the larger tires no matter what i did. Modern tires with the same size work fine.

I put bigger tires on a ran into problems with bearings, half shafts, u-joints, diff wear, and horse power. Not to mention I almost killed myself because it takes longer to brake, especially when the brakes are wet.

I've done ALOT of mods on my mutt, but through all the heart ache and lessons learned, i figured out it's very wise to listen to what the old dogs on this site have to say.

I've installed manually locking diffs front and rear, diff vent hoses, K&N air filter, polished and ported head, key start, raised rear exhaust with flexible exhaust tube, 10 ply NDC tires with gel inside the tire and tube, custum drive shaft, modified shock mounts so i can install modern shocks, and some other pidley stuff like extra storage and arm rest.

But with all the mods i have done there are a lot more i haven't done because i followed the advice on this site.

I took off the oversized tires and never went with the lift.

I will tell you something right now. With all those mods, my already formidable mutt has turned into a beast!

I play follow the leader with a bunch of my friends that drive moster CJ's, Bronco's, land rovers, hummers, etc... and usually i leave them behind. That Mutt 'o mine with the locking diffs is unstoppable. I don't have a problem with getting high centered at all, if you are a good driver you don't need the extra ground clearance. (10% vehicle - 90% driver) I still use the NDC tires with no issues what so ever.

The only thing left i want to do is a reduction kit for the transfer case and disc brakes.

Now i know Rick says to get a CJ and mod that and on one hand thats good advice.

But as i've said many times before, everybody and their brother has a modified CJ. No one will notice your CJ except other CJ drivers...EVERYONE notices your Mutt.

It does take a little more effort and money, but if done correctly you can keep the appearance of a M151 and gain the performance to do what you want to do and go where you want to go.

If you are a good driver you don't need a lift or over sized tires.

I used to live in las vegas where i had my jeep in some off road competitions. The ONLY ones i didn't come in the top three spots was were there was speed involved, not much you can do there.

My advice is get some locking diffs, some tuffer axles and drives shafts, hardened u-joints, and maybe disc brakes and you will forget all about the lift and bigger tires. Plus why be a follower when you.can be a leader? don't follow what everybody else is doing, blaze a new path! That's the MUTT way!

[SEABEE62]

I was thinking about tires on the sides and on top....this way I keep on going when I roll it.

[moose53]

course you could always do this, you'd never get stuck then...

[rickf]

I WANT THEM! I WANT THEM, I WANT THEM NOW! Hey Baios, that ought to take care of your tire fetish!!!!

I have seen them on pick-ups but not on a mutt.


Rick

[MUTT Vet]

I can't imagine what kind of modifications it would take to put those tracks on.

Stronger drive shaft and axles. Different differentials. More horse power. What else?

Big money GI...Big Money.

[Horst]

I don't think you would need a stronger drive system because you have significant gearing in those tracks. Look for example at a Unimog with the portal axles, with the gearing in the hub the drive shafts are indeed pretty thin. Same thing with a Humvee.