Anyone know anything about these guys

[Francis Marion]

How do you like that glock 19. Im not a big glock fan. But im slowly changing. I really like the usp 40.
Matt R

If you like the USP then the Block would feel like a Ferrari. It's still too blocky for me but I've gotten used to it because I have no other choice out here. From my experience, the XD feels better, shoots better, has better features, and is a safer handgun than the Glock but nothing shoots as sweet as the 1911.

[toptiger]

been a while since I was around any interesting situations where handguns would be needed, but I always felt that the 1911A1 was about as fine a handgun as anyone could need. But I never had an op to shoot anyone with one nor have I seen anyone be hit by a 45 round. We were all told back in the 60s in training that it was developed to drop someone even with a shoulder hit.
Would you confirm, 42GPW or Francis? Rainman you had one as a side arm, too, no.
I think the only unusual thing I have seen that probably no one else has this side of the Korean war is what a 50 cal incendiary round does when it impacts. Yeah, I know we weren't supposed to have them but we had a Huey D model {not the smaller C model gunship} that we called Smokey. It was used to lay down a smoke screen in an LZ for an incoming flight. It had a 50 cal mounted on a floor plate, and we flew with 3 gunners, one for the 50, two with M-60 free guns.
Well one day in 1969 or early 1970 we traded some Cs or LURP rations for some VN 50 cal. incendiary rounds that some RVN troops had on their APC and later got to use them when we found a bunch of NVA trying to infiltrate Saigon out in the Plain of Reeds....
here is a pic of a Huey 'Smoke' ship. You can see the 50 and if you look at the exhaust you can also see the ring that injected the oil.
http://www.68thahc.com/Photos_Old_02/P_Frans_03.jpg

[sherwan_88]

Francis,
Used these?

[rickf]

There was a training accident when I was in boot camp, a guy got shot in the shoulder with a 1911. The only thing holding his arm on was a strip of skin, it blew the joint to pieces! I can tell you that was a real wake up call for all there! Also had a friend who had been shot with an unloaded 1911, square in the chest. Took out one lung and his spine, he was paralyzed from the chest down. That happened when he was 16, I did not meet him until he was in his fifties. He still loved his guns though. He still had the gun he was shot with!

Moose, you may even know him, he was from Delanco.

Rick

[42GPW]

I agree about the 1911. I do love the usp sub compact. As for hits with the .45, I never experienced that. But the baretta 9mm. Piece of crap weapon. Hit a guy take half a mag and keep coming at us (Opium). DM finnally put him down with his m-14. I know spec ops is fielding 1911 frames hopped up. As with other frames.

Matt R

[Motorcityman]

I like USP's too, I have two of them. I like 1911's and have two as well 9mm and 45 are both great manstoppers and tried and proven for over 100 years each. Shot placement is the key to knocking someone down, that fella drugged up, nothing was taking him down other than a head shot or a well placed shot like your designated marksman did. There was a story of FBI agents in Florida 20 or so years ago, they shot some drugged up dude that was wired out of his mind off of PCP, he had over 30 rounds in him before he went down. On the flip side to that there's been incidents of people being killed by .22 shorts to the back and people living after being shot point blank to the head with a .44 magnum, the human body is an amazing machine!

I'm awaiting the arrival of a new pistola, I can't freaking wait. S&W performance center 952 (9mm) I ordered it yesterday, I'm going to sell an HK P7 to help fund it, crazy thing is the mags are 35 bucks a pop and I need 10 for PPC matches

[moose53]

There was a training accident when I was in boot camp, a guy got shot in the shoulder with a 1911. The only thing holding his arm on was a strip of skin, it blew the joint to pieces! I can tell you that was a real wake up call for all there! Also had a friend who had been shot with an unloaded 1911, square in the chest. Took out one lung and his spine, he was paralyzed from the chest down. That happened when he was 16, I did not meet him until he was in his fifties. He still loved his guns though. He still had the gun he was shot with!

Moose, you may even know him, he was from Delanco.

Rick

Didn't know him, but I did live in Delanco for a few years...

Jim

[Rainman]

Hey Top,
Never dealt with the 1911 much. My brother carried one while an MP, but I stayed with the M16, the M203 and the M60. I did train as a Huey door gunner for Air Assault qualification in support of the 1st Cav and 82nd Airborne. Still have my Airmobile certificate hanging on the wall.

[Francis Marion]

The 1911 was selected following the Philippine Insurrection where the Moros would get high on a local shrub and the little .38s the army issued wouldn't stop them in their charge. The 9mm is .38 with less powder pushing it and consequently holds the world record form most hits without incapacitating the perp at 33. An SF soldier here in Iraq was shot point blank in the face with a 9mm. It took out his two front teeth and lodged in the back of his mouth. I don't trust the 9mm to do the job it was intended to do.

Sherwan, is that a Sig? The State Department Agents carry Sigs and I keep hearing good reviews for them. Never fired one myself.

[sherwan_88]

Francis,
Thats the HK Mk.23, i really like the weapon, its simple yet powerful. I think these were the SF's answer to the 1911. Saw the civilian version here, too big and quite expensive for one, around 7g's i guess.

[Francis Marion]

The USP or Mk23 is a different story. There was a lot of talk about SF being issued this handgun but I have not seen it and all current indicators suggest that it will not happen. I have also heard many bad reports about these from gunsmiths who say that HK is literally using square pegs in round holes which causes unnecessary problems with its trigger pull. Then, like you mentioned, they are over priced and over sized.

[raymond]

I think the only unusual thing I have seen that probably no one else has this side of the Korean war is what a 50 cal incendiary round does when it impacts. Yeah, I know we weren't supposed to have them but we had a Huey D model {not the smaller C model gunship} that we called Smokey.

Top

That reminds me of a story my father told me once. He was a tank commander in WW2. He originally drove M4 Shermans, and later the M18 Hellcat. He told me that near the end of the war, they had crossed into Southern Germany. The German Army was surrendering en masse. They would enter towns with no resistance. But occasionally they would take fire from a sniper holed up in a building. So they would call up the tanks and issue an ultimatum for the sniper to surrender. If he did not, they would fire white phosphorus shells into the building , burn it down, and shoot the sniper as he attempted to flee. He said the same thing you did about the incendiary rounds, adding that they just didn't care whether they were supposed to use them or not. By this time, the war was obviously over, and noone wanted to be the last one to die, so no ground troops were sent in to clear buildings in these situations.

Raymond

[Francis Marion]

Is your father still with us? He might enjoy this: http://www.utahmvc.org/vehicles/show/2

If you or he ever has a chance to visit Utah, I should be able to get you a chance to climb on it.

[raymond]

No, he's no longer with us. He passed away very suddenly in the fall of 86 when I was a senior in college. He had been fishing at the country club. It was very fast. He still had his fishing pole and tackle box in his hand.

[Francis Marion]

I guess there's not many better ways to go.

The Hellcat is still here and in near new condition. They drove it in a parade for the 4th of July where it overheated/broke down. I didn't hear the final prognosis or the latest repairs but it is one of the top priorities for the local club.