Budd Number

[johnfal]

Most days when I arrive home from work it is the same old routine of change clothes a quick trip to the workshop do a little work, have dinner and relax for the rest of the night with a glass of wine and a film or good book. However tonight was different when I arrived home I found this sitting in my driveway.



It was attached to this






Now I have always said that I have never seen an A1 in Vietnam, in fact I gave up looking. Out of the blue a few days ago a guy who I sometimes get to work on my A2 said that he had been contacted by a guy near Dalat who had a jeep for sale at a very attractive price, so I told him to go and look at it and if it was in reasonable condition body and chassis wise to buy it.

Yesterday the guy called my wife to say that it was an A1 so not having a clue what that meant but gathered that it might be important because the guy was quite excited told him to buy it and bring it back for me.

After a quick cursory inspection it looks to be in remarkably good condition with little or no rust on the body and very little evidence of repair. Surprisingly the only bling that is on it is the door trims and the light and grill guards oh and the posts on the fenders where a couple of lights had been located. The PO had replaced a lot of engine and transmission parts with bits from other vehicles but these can easily be replaced. It is currently 12V but I will convert it to 24V. Tomorrow night I will put it over the pit and go underneath and have a good look. It has vacuum wipers fitted and a couple of spare including spare rear lights thrown in.

Judging by the Budd Number I assume that it is a 1973. It is however registered locally as a 1975, which makes me think it could be a original from the war, but I am not too fussed if it ain't. It also looks like it has only had one coat of paint,

I will try and get some better photo's at the weekend in daylight. The jeep runs well apparently as the guy who brought it said it ran the whole 230km without any problems, it started no problem when I turned the key. I plan to get all the foreign crap off it and try and get it back to how it should be (given the limited parts I have access to).

Before I start hacking it about is there anything other numbers etc I should look for. The engine plate is missing and has been replaced by a plate issued by the Vietnamese police or so I have been told, there is also another number put onto the body by the police on the firewall drivers side. I don't know where the slogan sultans of smoke came from, could that have been original, I wonder.

There is something nice about getting a new toy to play with. I cannot wait to give it a road test on Saturday. Oh!!! happy valentines day to me oh yeah!!!

OK over to the critics for your valued opinions

[rickf]

They stopped making A1's in 69. Damn! I would like to come home and find another toy in the yard.

Rick

[muttguru]

........Judging by the Budd Number I assume that it is a 1973. It is however registered locally as a 1975, which makes me think it could be a original from the war, but I am not too fussed if it ain't. It also looks like it has only had one coat of paint,

John,
that BUDD number equates to a late-production M151A1 (Ford). It would have been delivered around May 1969 and if it was delivered to the Army,(not USAF nor USMC) it would have had a hood number in the region of 02V 39769.
Ken

[csmith]

Very nice John!!! Great Score, and great wife

[toptiger]

that BUDD number equates to a late-production M151A1 (Ford). It would have been delivered around May 1969 and if it was delivered to the Army,(not USAF nor USMC) it would have had a hood number in the region of 02V 39769.

Actually the M151A1 Army hood numbers I had there on mine in 1968-69 only used the last 4 numbers not the last five, and no 0 before the 2. So probably more like 2V 9769
But as we know anything could have been used. If you look at the 'Nixon' M151 it used all of them!
http://www.google.fr/imgres?q=jeeps+in+ ... ,r:14,s:42

[muttguru]

[quote="toptiger]..........Actually the M151A1 Army hood numbers I had there on mine in 1968-69 only used the last 4 numbers not the last five, and no 0 before the 2. So probably more like 2V 9769
But as we know anything could have been used. If you look at the 'Nixon' M151 it used all of them!
[/quote]


Hello Top, if only the US Army numbering system were that simple !
From World War II, the US Army has used more than one numbering system.
As you may know, the WWII numbering system for jeeps began with the weight class as in 2012345, the initial "20" signifying 1/4-ton. This system continued right up to 1960.


From 1959, a new system was introduced, comprising numbers and a letter.............as in 2A 1234. It also brought in a revised 1/4-ton classification beginning with "2" The initial "2" signified 1/4-ton, so no real change from the WWII system. But immediately after the "2" came a letter, starting with "A" and working through the alphabet. When the number reached 2A 9999, the next letter was used... 2B 0001 etc.... some letters were NOT used because they could be confused with numbers (such as I and O).
A typical early hood number would appear as 2B 1234. Late-model M38A1s were mainly "2A-series".


In 1968, a new numbering system was introduced wich incorporated a "Year of Delivery" into it.... as per 02A 12368 - 12345. (a reversal of the WWII system that began with "20").
"02" again meant 1/4-ton truck, the "A" was used as part of an alphabetical sequence, the "123" would be followed by "124" etc, but the "68" stayed the same all that year. The letter used would change to the next-in-sequence once the numbering reached "999". Example 02A 999 would be followed by 02B 001. The actal year-of-delivery would change, but the changeover could result in one vehicle with hood number 02D 99668 being followed by 02E 99769. as long as you remember that the last two digits were "the year", it was a straightforward system, and for mutt researchers, it was THE BEST numbering system.
When the first A-Z alphabetical sequence was used up, a second letter was added, as per 02AB 12370 - 45678 (70 being the year of delivery).
The "45678" was the MFR Serial Number of that specific vehicle, followed, as you'd guess, by 45679 for the next vehicle etc.
A typical hood number would appear as 02GM 12370 (the second sequence of numbers did not appear on the hood but did appear on the dataplate).
In mid-1973, with the introduction of the emission control systems, the numbering changed yet again, this time to the 6-letter+digit system.
Instead of vehicle size and type being designated as "02" for jeep-type trucks, the new system used "NB", (Gama Goats were "NG" etc).
This system remains in place to this day . the combination of weight-class (NA, NB etc) along with the use of of (at first, numbers), then a combination of numbers and letters, followed by a combination of letter x letter x letter results in a possible combination of thousands of vehicular issues per type classification.
Does this make sense? I hope so....
Ken

[johnfal]

As promised here are some better photo's of the A1. Having had a good look at it in daylight I would say the body and chassis are about 70% to 80% good. The engine has a lot of Toyota parts but I believe that this could be mainly due to the fact that the PO lives in the mountain's near Dak Lak and access to spare jeep parts is limited. However it is not a problem as I have already managed to source nearly all I need to put it back as it should be.

I have two questions about the jeep and one is the colour and one is the slogan written on the front. I do not know if the colour is original but I cannot find any evidence so far of another colour underneath. The colour is more of a chocolaty shade like can be seen in some of the colour photo's from the war. The other question is the slogan,I consider it rather unlikely that a Vietnamese would come up with a slogan like "The Sultans of Smoke" as it would have no relevance to them unless it was originally on the Jeep when they got it or they copied from something else or another vehicle. The current version as painted on the jeep was added a few years ago because the original was faded so I am led to believe hence the spelling error. Any care to speculate as to what "The Sultans of Smoke" might refer to??

Again, any thought and opinions would be much appreciated before the old girl goes to be restored. Here it is cheaper to have the body work and engine done by others. About $2000 should see the old girl in pristine condition with a fully rebuilt engine, gearbox and differentials. It should take about four to five weeks to complete until then there is unlikely to be any further photo's as the garage is a long way from my house and I can only go there at weekends.

[rickf]

The ingenuity always amazes me. These people can make anything fit and work. The main reason they can do this is because there is nobody telling them "that will not work". They have a M151 engine that needs a carburetor and they have a Toyota carburetor, no problem. Do you know how many times I have asked what other carburetor will work even with an adapter and nobody knows? I have been asking the wrong people! And the differential looks like it was made for it and is probably a lot quieter.

Rick

[johnfal]

For those interested in the carburettor on the A1 I provide some additional photo's below. The method of attachment is a bit basic but it works. As for the make, all I have been told is that it is from a Daihatsu - possibly!!

I can provide no details on the Diff as yet other than it is from a Nissan car again - possibly. All I can see on it is T10 and either an 'A' or a Tear drop shaped logo alongside, I will try and get more info/photo's at the weekend.

[raymond]

Interesting ignition setup

[Rainman]

I'm a little partial to the inverted sediment bowl myself. One thing for sure, I'd run it through it's paces just as it sits and if it'll outrun the other one, drive it like it is for awhile. Gotta love the ingenuity to keep it on the road. With that rear differential you may be able to outrun me and my GPS! Does the new carb get better milage? Please keep is posted.
Rainman

[johnfal]

Hopefully in a weeks time the A1 it will go into the garage for body work repairs and to replace all the Toyota, Daihatsu and other bits that is on it. But as there is a fair amount of interest in how the diff and carb perform I will leave them on and do a bit of testing for you all. I have been toying with the idea of leaving the diff on anyway to see if it is any quieter than the stock diff, but to be honest the diff on my normal runner is fine it does not make much noise at all. It was a new diff about a year ago but before I put it on I set it up as per Scotty's guidelines in the Wicki and it runs fine. The one that came with the jeep was as noisy as hell, but it was loose inside, no pre-load on the bearings in fact the castellated locking rings on it were only hand tight. It is currently undergoing the Scotty treatment to see if performs better when tightened up a bit.

The carb on my runner is a Zennith, I cannot remember the number but it was the latest release with a B on the end. I stripped that down and rebuilt it setting it as as per the TM , at that time I also found that there were a couple of Jet sizes available that fitted so knowing nothing about carbs I just stuck one in, trouble is I cannot remember whether it was the larger or the smaller diameter bore of the two. Anyway the bottom line is that compared to the other guys running Mutt's my fuel consumption seems to be much lower than theirs. During the last two offroads we topped up our tanks and filled the jerry can on the back as reserves. By the time we finished the course most of the guys had broken into reserves whilst I was still running on my main tank, in fact I never had to touch my reserves at all. Why the difference I don't know , most of the guys are using the same carb so there should be no difference, maybe I am a more cautious driver tending to avoid the high revs.

The guy's however seem to think I have done something special to my carb and keep asking what I did or can I set up their carb for them, the answer to both is always no because I dont really want to start fiddling around with something I dont really understand, especially belonging to someone else.

That's my prattling done for today back to work.

[rickf]

John, I think the better mileage is just the fact that you are older and more experienced plus you are not beating on it like these guys are. You might want to look more into the diff that is there to find out if there is a limited slip or locker available for it.

Rick

[johnfal]

Fair point on the diff Rick first I need to identify the type. I haven't been doing anything with it other than buying parts because it is going into the garage to be worked on. Anyway until I get some basic things like working wipers, handbrake and tyres with tread on them fitted I am reluctant to take it out on the road especially given the amount of police around nowadays.

[ohiomgman]

Hmmmmm...a vacume boosted, dual circuit master cylinder..