1965 M151 in VN

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1965 M151 in VN

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1965 M151 in VN

Postby toptiger » March 9th, 2013, 4:33 am

thats a JP-4 fuel bladder behind the M151
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Author M-151 MUTT, The Vietnam Jeep
Paper edition http://www.blurb.com/books/1646321
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2 M151A2s, M416 trailer, M274A5 Mule,
Former Army Aviator, Bien Hoa, VN 1968-69
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Central Florida and France
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Re: 1965 M151 in VN

Postby rickf » March 9th, 2013, 9:29 am

I don't know anything about the bladders but wouldn't JP-4 be marked combustible and gasoline would be flammable?

Are they Yards in that 151?!
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Re: 1965 M151 in VN

Postby toptiger » March 9th, 2013, 10:19 am

Jezze, Rick I don't know the difference between combustible and flamable. Both burn, no? Our helicopters used JP-4, a 50/50 mix of kerosine and gasoline.

Were they 'Yards'??
I doubt it, the area is too flat, the 'Yards' lived in the mountains.
For those who don't know this derrogative term comes from the French word Montagnard, highlander/mountain dweller, that the US Army GIs turned into 'Yards'. They lived in the central highlands and were an isolated tribe, not of chinese origin, mostly ignored bu the South vietnamese until they weren't.

But I didn't take that photo and don't know the location. My unit was not based in the central highlands and we rarely went there. I personally saw them only when we went way up north to Song Be on a mission which delighted all of us as the women were attractive and dark skinned and shirtless mostly.

The montagnards were major allies to the US during VN. Of course they didn't like either the North or South Vietnamese and were considered great fighters against the VC. After the war ended the US left most them to their own means {abandoned them}. The tribe mostly moved into Cambodia fearing communist repraisal for helping the US.

Further north the US distinguished itself once again abandoning and betraying after the war another ethnic hill tribe, the Hmong who were strong allies during the war. When the US left, it left them too, no assistance for their years of support to the war. They went on over to Laos trying to avoid the new VN governments but the Laos govt also feared these fierce anti-communist, mostly christian tribes people and persecuted them.
To be fair some US Govt efforts were made to bring some of these people back to the US and they live on today in the USA. But those promises to take care of them like US citizens were never honored.
Disgraceful.
Author M-151 MUTT, The Vietnam Jeep
Paper edition http://www.blurb.com/books/1646321
IOS ebook iBookstore: http://itunes.apple.com/us/book/id598605516
2 M151A2s, M416 trailer, M274A5 Mule,
Former Army Aviator, Bien Hoa, VN 1968-69
Mustang Gunship Platoon Commander
68th Assault Helicopter Company 'Top Tigers'
Central Florida and France
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Re: 1965 M151 in VN

Postby Rainman » March 9th, 2013, 2:31 pm

Excuse me Top, but I am personally disturbed as I read your post referring to the Vietnamese tribes the US abandoned at the end of the war. Isn't it true that the war was between the North and the South Vietnamese Governments? The US assigned advisers and later sent US soldiers to the South after the French pulled out. The war between the North and the South continued on even after the US pulled out correct? This all being fact, they did not help us in the war, we were there to help them. We didn't ABANDON them as much as we stopped assisting them. I'm not an 'in country" vet, yet I am still offended by your comments. We surely started the war with Iraq, but we only assumed a support role when it comes to Vietnam. Throwing words around like "abandoned" and "betrayed" is at the very least rude and offensive to me.

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Re: 1965 M151 in VN

Postby toptiger » March 9th, 2013, 3:37 pm

Rainman, first- " I'm not an 'in country" vet, yet I am still offended by your comments.'' I thought you told me early on you were an LT in a transportation company in VN?? But if not my error and no matter.

But don't be offended.

The US had buried this story and is rightfully ashamed by it. The US right up into Clinton's Presidency denied their existence and their part in some of the war, noteably the Laos NVA supply intradiction but also other aspects.

As for me ' Throwing words around like "abandoned" and "betrayed" is at the very least rude and offensive to me.'
You are confusing the South Vietnamese whom, as you rightly stated, were 'helped' by us to fight the North Vietnamese Communist invaders.

But, I was discussing non ethnic, non chinese, christian, isolated hill tribesmen {Montangyards and Hmong} mostly ignored by both the North and South for centuries who were recruited and paid to fight by the CIA and SF, trained by them, armed by them, and lead by them until the war ended when we pulled out and abandoned them.

They were betrayed and left to rot. These people were an additional US Military ally and fought along side our forces. They had nothing to do with the South Vietnamse, despised them even, but hated the North even more. They were promised many things, full support and protection, and some even claim US citizenship at the end of the war.

There really is no question that thee people were betrayed.

But don't take my word for it- here are some reliable links:
http://burnpit.us/2010/06/help-save-montagnard-peoples
Jun 9, 2010 – The U.S. betrayal of the Montagnard people is a national disgrace, made no less ignominious by the fact that almost no one knows about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degar
The U.S. Mission to Saigon sponsored the training of the Degar in unconventional warfare by American Special Forces. These newly trained Degar were seen as a potential ally in the Central Highlands area to stop Viet Cong activity in the region and a means of preventing further spread of Viet Cong sympathy.[1] Later, their participation would become much more important as the Ho Chi Minh trail, the North Vietnamese supply line for Viet Cong forces in the south, grew. The U.S. military, particularly the U.S. Army's Special Forces, developed base camps in the area and recruited the Degar, roughly 40,000 of whom fought alongside American soldiers and became a major part of the U.S. military effort in the Highlands.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hmong_people
In the early 1960s, the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency's (CIA) Special Activities Division began to recruit, train and lead the indigenous Hmong people in Laos to fight against North Vietnamese Army intruders into Laos during the Vietnam War. It became a Special Guerrilla Unit led by General Vang Pao. About 60% of the Hmong men in Laos were assisted by the CIA to join fighting for the "Secret War" in Laos.[39][40] The CIA used the Special Guerrilla Unit as the counterattack unit to block the Ho Chi Minh Trail, the main military supply route from the north to the south.
Throughout the Vietnam War, and for two decades following it, the U.S. government stated that there was no "Secret War" in Laos and that the U.S. was not engaged in air or ground combat operations in Laos. In the late 1990s, however, several U.S. conservatives, alleging that the Clinton administration was using the denial of this covert war to justify a repatriation of Thailand-based Hmong war veterans to Laos, urged the U.S. government to acknowledge the existence of the Secret War and to honor the Hmong and U.S. veterans from the war. On 15 May 1997, in a reversal of U.S. policy, the U.S. government acknowledged that it had supported a prolonged air and ground campaign against the NVA and VietCong. It simultaneously dedicated the Laos Memorial on the grounds of Arlington National Cemetery in honor of the Hmong and other combat veterans from the Secret War.
Author M-151 MUTT, The Vietnam Jeep
Paper edition http://www.blurb.com/books/1646321
IOS ebook iBookstore: http://itunes.apple.com/us/book/id598605516
2 M151A2s, M416 trailer, M274A5 Mule,
Former Army Aviator, Bien Hoa, VN 1968-69
Mustang Gunship Platoon Commander
68th Assault Helicopter Company 'Top Tigers'
Central Florida and France
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Re: 1965 M151 in VN

Postby Rainman » March 9th, 2013, 4:48 pm

Hey Top,
As for your supporting documentation, I couldn't have found better myself to support my position. Tormented by the communist since the 9th century and were aligned with the French before the US ever came into the picture. We'll have to sit down with a bottle of Dickel and debate this in person sometime. :D As for the "Rainman In Country" you must have me mixed up with some other member, and it's happened more than once. I'm certainly not a "poser", just lucky enough to not serve until final cease fire in 73. I was 1st Cav Signal Corp MOS 31M which is why Rick directs radio questions my way and Floyd calls me Sparky :D
Once again for the record, I served 3 years stateside and am not a war hero yet proudly display my Airmobile Qualification Certificate and Honorable Discharge as well as the Good Conduct and National Defense Medals I was awarded. His came up last year too....

"Re: Last of the Hueys
Post by Rainman on Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:50 pm
No Air Medals for me Top. My time in Huey's was limited to stateside training."


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Re: 1965 M151 in VN

Postby rickf » March 9th, 2013, 7:30 pm

I am glad to see you two working this out on your own. Since my A/O was the Central Highlands I was quite familiar with the Montagnyards and yes we left them in a lurch. They fought for us which made them enemies of the communists but we had somewhere else to go, they did not. They were not involved in the war in the beginning and probably never would have been had we not got them involved. I am glad they were on our side since I would not want them hunting me! I think there were a hundred thousand South Vietnamese and at least as many or more North Vietnamese who would not have died had we not gotten involved in that war. And we keep doing it. And we keep leaving people behind.
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Re: 1965 M151 in VN

Postby toptiger » March 9th, 2013, 8:00 pm

Rainman, Got you mixed up with Ralph, sorry. RIP Ralph.
It doesn't matter when you served and I didn't mean to imply anything just to point out that the 'Yards' were special - true brothers and we let them down, big time.
Anyone who served with those guys will tell you the same thing, thing is that few normal Army troopers were ever involved with them so wouldn't know much about it. Just SF and CIA operatives mainly. As I said I learned about it at first from my cousin who was an A team member 68-69 and lived and fought with them.
Save some G Dickel for me. I got to remember to bring some back to France next trip. JD is sold in every grocery store here, but no other Tenna whisky.
Author M-151 MUTT, The Vietnam Jeep
Paper edition http://www.blurb.com/books/1646321
IOS ebook iBookstore: http://itunes.apple.com/us/book/id598605516
2 M151A2s, M416 trailer, M274A5 Mule,
Former Army Aviator, Bien Hoa, VN 1968-69
Mustang Gunship Platoon Commander
68th Assault Helicopter Company 'Top Tigers'
Central Florida and France
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Re: 1965 M151 in VN

Postby Rainman » March 9th, 2013, 8:17 pm

Don't you guys even read the history cited by Top in the history of what your talking about?

" As Christians, religious freedom was an absolute must. Oppressed as an ethnic minority in their homeland, they sought political autonomy. As communism tolerates neither, they allied first with the French then the Americans. Following the communist victory in 1975, a third war began."

"They were not involved in the war in the beginning and probably never would have been had we not got them involved."

I understand the disappointment of having to leave when you time was up and leaving behind not only the guys you served with as well as the locals, but all the history books show we were not the ones that GOT THEM INVOLVED!

Thinking more about this, it's hard to ignore the personal feelings, friendships, and support you both received from these tribes, it would certainly feel like you were betraying a friend to certain failure upon your departure, weather they were fighting when you arrived or not. It didn't take physic to know what would happen to the entire country in short order. Diplomatically speaking, they were at war long before we arrived.
Last edited by Rainman on March 9th, 2013, 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1965 M151 in VN

Postby rickf » March 9th, 2013, 8:55 pm

Sorry, never had much time to read the history of a war that damn near killed me. Didn't interest me that much. Who exactly got them involved? Without the theatrics please. Never thought to ask them myself and it probably would not have been a good idea anyway. Nobody in my unit spoke their language anyway and best I could tell they did not speak Vietnamese, French, German, Spanish or English. All of which were covered by one or another in the outfit. We communicated by sign and trade.
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Re: 1965 M151 in VN

Postby toptiger » March 10th, 2013, 4:06 am

Pass the Dickel, pleaaassssee
Author M-151 MUTT, The Vietnam Jeep
Paper edition http://www.blurb.com/books/1646321
IOS ebook iBookstore: http://itunes.apple.com/us/book/id598605516
2 M151A2s, M416 trailer, M274A5 Mule,
Former Army Aviator, Bien Hoa, VN 1968-69
Mustang Gunship Platoon Commander
68th Assault Helicopter Company 'Top Tigers'
Central Florida and France
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Re: 1965 M151 in VN

Postby rickf » March 10th, 2013, 10:15 am

Agreed, Let's just let this one slide off into the sunset. 8) 8)
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AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
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Re: 1965 M151 in VN

Postby ohiomgman » May 17th, 2013, 8:28 pm

I have known MANY... "YARDS.....I have always liked them. E-Bray, is on the left, The Chief, is holding the "Bloop Tube." I am on the Right.

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Re: 1965 M151 in VN

Postby Rainman » May 18th, 2013, 1:04 am

Great photo's Greg. I'd recognize you anywhere. Saw you earlier today as a matter of fact, :D

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Re: 1965 M151 in VN

Postby rickf » May 18th, 2013, 7:45 am

The tribes I dealt with were not wearing uniforms, other than sometimes a piece of one for ornamental purpose, more like the last couple of pic's. Some even carried bows and arrows and spears, and rifles. I commented earlier that they did not understand any of the languages we spoke but I would bet that they understood some of it, just did not let on that they did. They may have been jungle tribesmen but they were smart. They could walk ten yards into the jungle and just plain disappear, you could go looking for them and not find them. It was their world.
Greg, I only met you once a couple years ago at Gilbert but I have to say you haven't changed a bit. :roll:

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