cant get brake drum off axel

need more space? add a M416 trailer! and discuss it here.

Moderators: rickf, moose53, Mr. Recovery, raymond

Re: cant get brake drum off axel

Sponsor

Sponsor
 

Re: cant get brake drum off axel

Postby rickf » January 31st, 2019, 9:35 am

Ok, This is a trailer. You have the axle nut off and the outer bearing out? My guess is that with the hub wobbling around the drum is hanging on the shoes. I never tried it but maybe TJ can answer this, shouldn't the whole hub be able to come off through the brake backing plate? Can't he pull the drum and hub together? It sounds to me like the inner bearing is hanging up and if that is all it is then a hub pull will work.The type that attaches to the wheel studs and pushes on the spindle. Put the bearing nut back on the spindle backwards with the flutes facing inwards and the flat part of the nut facing out and flush with the end of the threads to protect the threads from the puller.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
rickf
General
General
 
11 years of membership11 years of membership11 years of membership11 years of membership11 years of membership11 years of membership11 years of membership11 years of membership11 years of membership11 years of membership11 years of membership
 
Posts: 15653
Joined: November 26th, 2007, 12:28 pm
Location: Pemberton, NJ.

Re: cant get brake drum off axel

Postby m3a1 » January 31st, 2019, 1:16 pm

Ahah! Mystery solved. Entirely different vehicle altogether. Hub and drum come off together. In this case, think of your hub and drum as a single unit and so, we are no longer going to worry about removing the drum independently of the hub..

So, with the retaining nut, washer, outer bearing removed the only real question is, what is keeping the inner bearing from sliding off the spindle? We don't have photos but from his description I think it's safe to say catastrophic bearing failure while the vehicle was on the move so I'm leaning towards ground up bearing debris having heat-welded itself to the faced of the spindle. That would explain the hub not wanting to come off. Debris on the spindle is causing the inner bearing to hang up.

The good news is that inner bearing isn't part of the hub so, if the inner bearing cannot slide off the spindle at this point in time, all that remains is to free the seal at the back of the hub and off it comes.

That seal is merely pressed in - it is an interference fit. To give you some idea of what it takes to remove a seal when everything is correct, often times mechanics who were removing hubs would pull the outer bearing, replace the retaining nut and then pull the whole shebang off by hand. This would have the effect of having the inner bearing hang up on the retaining nut and that good swift pull would also pull the inner seal out of the hub in one heave, leaving one with a hub with the inner bearing and inner seal removed. That was just an old time-saving trick.

In your case, it appears you can't even begin a pull by hand but with what I have heard so far, a hub puller may be the very best course of action. In my mind, it would be a very good idea to have a good look inside the hub and maybe get a finger in there to determine the condition of that spindle to see what it's condition is if only to confirm or deny my theory.

Bottom line is, I believe the hang up is just an obstinate seal.
m3a1
Colonel
Colonel
 
4 years of membership4 years of membership4 years of membership4 years of membership
 
Posts: 1557
Joined: August 7th, 2014, 5:36 pm

Re: cant get brake drum off axel

Postby Lindsay36551 » January 31st, 2019, 5:01 pm

T J and Rick, Both where correct!
Hub puller until l a good amount of tension, a hotter flame and bigger lead hammer! I heated the actual axel and bearing and she popped right off! :D :D :D
other side was just as bad! off to get seals and all new bearings!
Gentlemen thank you so much for your help!
Best regards
Lindsay
1967 M-35-a2-D SOLD
1973 M151A2
M151 A1-SOLD
196? franken MUTT
M1oo trailer
1963 M151
1968 M416 trailer
Lindsay36551
2nd Lieutenant
2nd Lieutenant
 
7 years of membership7 years of membership7 years of membership7 years of membership7 years of membership7 years of membership7 years of membership
 
Posts: 873
Joined: December 19th, 2011, 11:31 am
Location: eustis fl

Re: cant get brake drum off axel

Postby rickf » January 31st, 2019, 6:49 pm

now the big question is the axle scarred up from a seized bearing? If it is then chances are a new bearing is going to spin on the axle and do the same thing. You can peen the axle with a center punch in several places but that is not a real good solution, that is a get me home solution.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
rickf
General
General
 
11 years of membership11 years of membership11 years of membership11 years of membership11 years of membership11 years of membership11 years of membership11 years of membership11 years of membership11 years of membership11 years of membership
 
Posts: 15653
Joined: November 26th, 2007, 12:28 pm
Location: Pemberton, NJ.

Re: cant get brake drum off axel

Postby Lindsay36551 » January 31st, 2019, 7:18 pm

Ahhh the beauty of having a take off complete axel in the warehouse!
No its not buggered up ! on the other side I have an inner race that wanted to stay attached!
Do I carefully die grind a couple of cuts and TAP IT OFF IN PIECES OR TRY TO PULL IT OFF?
I LOVE not BEING IN A HURRY!!!! Rick this is the new me!(scarry hugh!!!)
1967 M-35-a2-D SOLD
1973 M151A2
M151 A1-SOLD
196? franken MUTT
M1oo trailer
1963 M151
1968 M416 trailer
Lindsay36551
2nd Lieutenant
2nd Lieutenant
 
7 years of membership7 years of membership7 years of membership7 years of membership7 years of membership7 years of membership7 years of membership
 
Posts: 873
Joined: December 19th, 2011, 11:31 am
Location: eustis fl

Re: cant get brake drum off axel

Postby rickf » January 31st, 2019, 8:07 pm

Is the race discolored bluish like it was hot or is it scarred up from a bad bearing? If so it probably spun on the axle ans welded itself on and will have to be cut. If it does not look really bad you can try heating the race up and tapping on it to see if it will come loose. keep in mind that the idea is to heat the race fast enough that you are getting it hot before the axle so the race is expanding and not the axle. this means you need a pretty hot torch so you can move around the race quickly and get it hot fast before thee axle has a chance to catch up. If that does not work then give it all time to cool off before you try cutting it and all you need is a small grinder like a dremel and the idea is to cut most of the way through but not all the way and then get a sharp chisel and put it in the cut and give it a sharp smack. The race will usually split at the cut. This way you do not risk cutting into the axle. Here is a hint, Cut it on an angle and you will be able to cut all the way across. If you try to cut straight across you will not be able to do it. Once you get in there you will see what I mean.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone
rickf
General
General
 
11 years of membership11 years of membership11 years of membership11 years of membership11 years of membership11 years of membership11 years of membership11 years of membership11 years of membership11 years of membership11 years of membership
 
Posts: 15653
Joined: November 26th, 2007, 12:28 pm
Location: Pemberton, NJ.

Re: cant get brake drum off axel

Postby m3a1 » January 31st, 2019, 8:27 pm

Ok, so let me get this straight. The spindle, outboard of the inner bearing, has debris heat-welded to it?

Is the inner bearing (or what's left of it) able to move even the tiniest bit on the spindle or, did it spin until it also heat welded itself onto the spindle? this is an important question to answer because the answer to that question is going to dictate your next step.

If the inner bearing moves, even only ever-so-slightly, it's free and your attention should then be focused upon removing the debris.

Do what you can with a scraper, then, judiciously, with a chisel if there's a lot of it. If you are good with a flap disc sander or a flat file have at it. A good effort with some emory cloth will also do wonders. Remember, it is paramount that you preserve those areas upon which each bearing resides, allowing them to keep their original diameters. Anything between those two spots really is fair game. But, you don't want a huge reduction of the cross section of that spindle either so be patient, show it some love and all will be well.

If you can slide a new bearing up to the old bearing you have done rather well and you are almost home free. You will find that with some moderate persuasion, your old bearing will now come off. Remember you'll likely be fighting some leftover debris right at the junction of the spindle and the outer edge of the old bearing's cone and that's just the cost of having bearings go bad. That small amount of debris that cannot be dealt with will make you have to work for getting the inner bearing off but if this was super easy, ANYONE could do it and we wouldn't have any fun discussing it, verstehen?

Alternative methods of releasing a cone from a spindle - precise application of heat to the cone (obviously heat is not good for the spindle itself), or almost bisecting the cone with final division made by employing a cold chisel, or almost bisecting a cone but leaving the final millimeter intact and applying heat to those points of bisection. A cut off wheel really makes short work of a bearing cone.

Happily, it sounds as if you are almost done. *applause*!

Cheers,
TJ
Last edited by m3a1 on February 1st, 2019, 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
m3a1
Colonel
Colonel
 
4 years of membership4 years of membership4 years of membership4 years of membership
 
Posts: 1557
Joined: August 7th, 2014, 5:36 pm

Re: cant get brake drum off axel

Postby Lindsay36551 » February 1st, 2019, 6:46 pm

The spindles are like brand new!
I don't think this has ever been apart before! The grease is like hard clay! Very dry and stiff.
1967 M-35-a2-D SOLD
1973 M151A2
M151 A1-SOLD
196? franken MUTT
M1oo trailer
1963 M151
1968 M416 trailer
Lindsay36551
2nd Lieutenant
2nd Lieutenant
 
7 years of membership7 years of membership7 years of membership7 years of membership7 years of membership7 years of membership7 years of membership
 
Posts: 873
Joined: December 19th, 2011, 11:31 am
Location: eustis fl

Re: cant get brake drum off axel

Postby m3a1 » February 1st, 2019, 9:23 pm

You owe us some pictures, buddy.
m3a1
Colonel
Colonel
 
4 years of membership4 years of membership4 years of membership4 years of membership
 
Posts: 1557
Joined: August 7th, 2014, 5:36 pm

Previous

Return to Trailers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

Customization by G838.org