Replacing the water pump what else should i do

[tbh726]

Hi all,

Still trying to get to the point i can turn the engine over... found out the water pump was frozen, had some build up that looks like it hardened. the Antifreeze was a nice green, looked like it just came out of new container. After reading a few things on here(great info) i still took the front apart, figured while i am here i would replace all the rubber hoses and it would be easier this way. I also saw someone had replaced the water pump in the past and it appears they broke the upper housing bolt hole on the generator (also found that could happen on a thread here). it turns freely and was tight on the adjustment bar, so i am trying to figure if there is anything i can do about it. so a couple questions:

• The belts all look like they are brand new, but this was sitting since 2005, should i replace them while here?
  Is there anything i can do about the generator bolt hole? (was wondering if i could weld something like a "C" washer and use a longer bolt to tighten it)
  Is there anything else i should replace besides the thermostat, heater hoses, radiator hoses, fuel lines that are rubber?

thoughts
thanks
tim

[rickf]

I would plan on running a good brand of radiator flush through the engine a few times before putting antifreeze back in it because the inside of the block will look just like that water pump. Leave the thermostat out for the flush and put cardboard over the radiator to raise the engine up to operating temp. Then follow directions on the flush bottle. The belts will be fine as long as they are not cracked, if you get new be sure you get a matched set from a surplus dealer. The bolt hole would be hard to weld since it is dirty cast, better off using a large washer on either side of the bolt and it will be fine.

Once you go through the flush sequence you might want to take the radiator out and turn it upside down and flush it out from the bottom since all that crap from the engine will be coming into it from the top hose. Just set the grill in with the top and bottom bolt on each side until all of that is done so removal is easy.

[tbh726]

thanks i will have flush the system after i get a few more things done. no gas tank in yet or fuel lines replaced. i am to the point i am ready to just turn the motor over that is when i found out it was frozen.

question on the rubber parts/belts. what is your thoughts on using NOS parts vs new? is 40 year old hoses as good as going to say NAPA and finding one similar and using it? I was going to go to the auto parts store and get new heater hoses, radiator hoses and some fuel lines, was going to take the old parts in to see if i could find a match.


tim

[Surveyor]

Appears the g838 wiki needs work... I pulled this for you from the last day it was crawled -

Civilian Part Cross-Reference

1. Oil Filter
K&N Wrench-Off Filter HP-3001
FL-1A
FRAM PH8A
FRAM's newest filter TG8A
NAPA 1515
Purolator L3001
Purolator PER1A
WIX 51515
Pennzoil PZ-1
Bosch 3500 premium filter at Autozone

2. Spark Plugs
Note: check the cross reference list in the electrical section for the military part numbers

Autolite 2245
Autolite AR7C
AC Delco WR 46
Blue Crown SR6F15
Champion RJ6C with the spark plug adapters (see Modifications section for custom built adapters)
Champion XMJ 17 (R)
Champion ORD-2
champion 517
Motorcraft AR7S
BOSCH WC 225 ERT 3 with Cr Electrode (0 240 245 007)

3. Thermostat, Radiator Cap, Water Pump and Radiator Hoses
Napa 191
Gates 33038
Stant 13078 (Perfect fit and plenty of clearance to open. Temp 180 degrees)
CarQuest 30238
NAPA BALKAMP 703-1422, 10# cap.
58-244 reman water pump from( A1 cardone)
UPPER FLEX RADIATOR HOSE (1.25” ID X 9 5/8”)Note(1.25” ID X 11” will work but will have trim about 1/2” from each end)
LOWER FLEX RADIATOR HOSE (1.50” ID X 17.50”)

4. Fuel Pump and Fuel Filter
M151A2…Airtex, customer part number 021163, catalog number 928M, cost USD43, available at Autozone.
or also usable, but not identical fuel pump for mid 60s Valiant with slant six
FUEL FILTER PUROLATOR F10131
Spectre / Clearview in-line fuel filter (available from Autozone or O’Reilly’s)
-Part #: 2369 -Alt Part #: 9706

MOELLER Ultra View In-Line Disposable Fuel Filter for 5/16 or 3/8)
-5/16: Part # 033316-10

5. Belts
Gates 7340
M151A1 W/25 amp. generator. Gates 7330
Goodyear: 15361 (11AV0900)
Goodyear 13T341
NAPA 25-08633 (was 270)
Dayco 15340 (was 384)

6. Axle
Axle U-joint TRW 20060
Axle U-Joint U-bolts TRW 20701
Axle U-JOINTS Part #1-5900, made by PDQ(NEAPCO INC.) use with caution, seems to not fit really well, use NOS instead

7. Battery
check in the Electrical section of this wiki

8. Shocks
M151A1 Bushings, Harley-Davidson part OEM 85210-42A
SHOCK (REAR): MUNROE 1641029 C5A73
SHOCK (FRONT): MUNROE 8359994 C1D82

9. Brakes
Brake Hose Clip CarQuest PN: BRK W72
Brake Hose Clip Napa PN: 80742
Brake Shoes for 1968 AMC American by Wagner PN: PAB301R
Brake Hardware Kit Wagner PN: H7037 (Has all hardware as NAPA PN: 2215 to include the adjuster spring. 1 kit = 1 axel)
Brake Hardware Kit Napa PN: 2215 (All Springs, Hold-downs, and Backing Plate Rubber Plugs except Adjuster Spring: For 1 Axle)
rear 3/4 brake cylinders: Brake Best part number WC251660 or WC16535 (at O'Reilly Auto Parts)
brake shoe holder springs Brake Best # HDW1156
Wheel cylinder kit Napa PN: 127 (Includes 2 ea. boot, piston, cup, and 1 spring)

10.Rear output shaft
bearing part number MRC G306-M2 (This bearing is a special order item but is stocked by the manufacturer)

11. Center output shaft bearing
part numbe FEDERAL MOGUL MU-1206-TM

12. PISTON RINGS
Perfect Circle Chevrolet 250
Ring Diameter 3 7/8 x 3/32 when ordering rings from Otto Gas Engine Works

13. Intake Valve Seals
Felpro SS 72616 for Ford/Mercury 6 144, 170, 200, 250 Engine 1960-1983 or Ford Truck 6 144, 170, 200, Engine 1960-1974.

14.Transfer case front output shaft
bearing part number NACHI 6205

15.Light bulbs
Turn & brake bulbs: Westinghouse #1683
Bulb for turn indicator on switch #1873, 3cp (candlepower) 28v 5.6w
Running lights: Westinghouse #1251
Headlight: Westinghouse #4860, #4863, #4800 (w/lugs)
Bulb # 313 (MS25231-313), T-3 1/4 miniature bayonet, 28 Volt, 0.2 Amp, 3 MSCP. Common uses: turn signal switch indicator lamp, gauge backlight, general indicator lamp uses. If a dimmer lamp is required use a type 1829. Can be used in place of type 1873 and 1864.

16.Steering
Oil seals, all numbers are SKF brand:
9837 Sector shaft seal replaces 7703447 or part number 22 on the drawing.
5707 Steering shaft lower seal. Replaces seal portion of 7748774 or part #21 on the drawing.
7443 Steering shaft upper seal. Replaces 7703445 or part #11 on the drawing.
Taper roller bearings available from Timken with part number 5BC (need two of these) replaces 705009 or part #17 on the drawing.
Outer races yone of 6CE and one 6 again Timken numbers.

17.Gaskets
Drain plug gaskets, The copper drain and fill plug gaskets are available from NAPA. Number NOE 704-1364. The Manufacturer is Dorman # 095-005,

18. Air Filter Conversion
Fram CA8039
K&N E996

[rickf]

Surveyor, I have a new list from Ken that changes some of the old and adds a lot more new. Just need to find time (or help) to get it all together and into the new system.

[rickf]

thanks i will have flush the system after i get a few more things done. no gas tank in yet or fuel lines replaced. i am to the point i am ready to just turn the motor over that is when i found out it was frozen.

question on the rubber parts/belts. what is your thoughts on using NOS parts vs new? is 40 year old hoses as good as going to say NAPA and finding one similar and using it? I was going to go to the auto parts store and get new heater hoses, radiator hoses and some fuel lines, was going to take the old parts in to see if i could find a match.


tim

Tim, You say the motor is frozen? Have you freed it up and have you pulled the head to see what condition the cylinders are in? You don't want to do a lot of work on a frozen motor without pulling it apart and thoroughly going over it. You could just be tossing good money into bad.

[SturmTyger380]

The belts will be fine as long as they are not cracked, if you get new be sure you get a matched set from a surplus dealer.

I don't go for the matched sets anymore. Beginning in the 90's the quality control of belt manuf was made more strict by the RMA - Rubber Manuf Assoc.

Matched sets used to be belts cut off of the drum they were made on right next to each other. But if it makes you feel better go for the matched set.

[tbh726]

This is great info, exactly what i was looking for on what parts could i just get out in town vs having to buy surplus. eagerly waiting for the new and updated list.

Sorry Rick, no the engine is not frozen, it was the water pump that was frozen hard. Engine appears to be in good condition, just trying to get it to splash oil in the cylinders, and lifters that is when i noticed water pump would not spin. I drained the oil, it had some seafoam added at sometime. when i took cover off top it looked super clean, poured mystery oil all over the lifters and put in the oil you recommended. Want to get the to the point that i can spin everything from the starter switch. i knew i was going to have to replace a bunch of hoses, so i figured while i am in doing the water pump do some more.

tim

[rickf]

The belts will be fine as long as they are not cracked, if you get new be sure you get a matched set from a surplus dealer.

I don't go for the matched sets anymore. Beginning in the 90's the quality control of belt manuf was made more strict by the RMA - Rubber Manuf Assoc.

Matched sets used to be belts cut off of the drum they were made on right next to each other. But if it makes you feel better go for the matched set.

You buy three belts for your A2 in a store and see what you end up with. I will guarantee that maybe two will get tight but never three and none will be equal. You might get away with it on longer belts but not short ones.

[m3a1]

Just a little automotive archeology will tell you a lot about your motor.

Three big 'windows' into the health of your engine would be -

the condition of your oil (which may have been changed at any time so that's a crap shoot),

the condition of your spark plugs,

and just taking off the valve cover and looking at the condition of what's under there.

By the way, having that valve cover off when you turn the engine over will also give you a lot to go on. These few things will allow you to gain a lot of insight into the health of the engine very early on even before more strenuous measures are taken, such as compression test, etc.

[tbh726]

Hi m3a1,

the oil was from 2003 he used 5w30, it was kind of runny but looked perfectly like new oil other than runny. under the valve covers the head, lifters and push rods all looked like they just came from the factory, no oil, no sludge, supper clean. The plugs have a little black color to them like it was running rich.

i bought it from my brother so the info is good, he did recently (2004) rebuilt the carb then in 2005 he drove into his garage and parked it till i bought it this year. from the time he rebuilt the carb to the time he parked it he might have driven it 50 miles total.

tim

[m3a1]

Excellent!

[Bill, Idaho]

Regarding the reference chart---is there a civilian replacement part for the thermostat housing? I spent a bit a time at the counter of our two local auto parts stores.....and couldn't match it up. Certainly something civilian would fit, right?

[Mr. Recovery]

found this on e-bay.

www.ebay.com/itm/162311034721?hash=item ... Swo4pYRxSi

Surplus City Parts has them listed http://www.surplusjeep.com/M151/M151_%2 ... 20Page.htm
4 8754620 Housing, Water $24.95

RapcoParts has them listed http://www.rapcoparts.com/m15101-13.html

dan-2beers.jpg

[Bill, Idaho]

SO, no civilian counterpart? Oh well, I was hoping to grab one at the local auto parts store. I figured it would just be a matter of knowing what vehicle/engine to mention. Somewhere I read Dodge slant 6, but that wasn't close. We couldn't find any Ford ones that looked similar in their catalogs. With so many other small parts that have civilian equivalents, I would have bet .gov would have used something already on a shelf.

But, none the less, THANKS, I will be giving RAPCO a call in a few days. I appreciate the effort.