Dual wheels on M151 or M416?

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mutt and jeff
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Dual wheels on M151 or M416?

Unread post by mutt and jeff » May 30th, 2022, 3:51 pm

Picked up these things with a trailer load of Willys parts, but no numbers or markings on them. I am at a loss as to their possible use. I thought some sort of dual wheel hub that used long Budd type lug nuts. And then I thought about some sort of PTO rear axle flat drive belt unit that bolted to a rear axle. But now that I have beat on them with a hammer to get them to press fit into a mutt wheel, the tubes came apart into three pieces and now I'm more perplexed.
The tube will not fit through the center bore of any Willys wheels that I have although the lug bolt pattern is 5x5.6. The same as the mutt, so I tried to get them through the center bore hole of a mule wheel and it may go with a bigger hammer or sandblasting off some rust. But, if the mule or trailer never had dual wheel applications, then I'm barking up the wrong tree.
And now that the tube comes off the collar and flange, no broken welds, both units come apart into six pieces, I don't know what keeps the tube from spinning or falling off, regardless of the application.

Any thoughts or direction? Same bolt pattern as some vintage Dodge and Ford trucks, but I am under the impression that they have even smaller bore holes, so no help there.

I'll hang up and listen.
dual adapter 2.JPG
dual adapter 2.JPG
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rickf
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Re: Dual wheels on M151 or M416?

Unread post by rickf » May 30th, 2022, 8:58 pm

Probably something somebody was in the process of fabricating and never followed through on. The first thing that comes to my mind is a capstan for the rope winch off the wheels. M-151 suspension arms are nowhere near strong enough to support dual wheel with the second wheel just bolted to the outside edge of the inner. With dual wheels you need the offset to be such that when mounted the two wheels both support the weight at the centerline of the hub. So you would need wheels with a full 6 1/2" offset. The flange would be 1/2" outside of the rear face of the rim to give the required 1" space between the tires. THEN, You would have to modify the wheel body tubs.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone


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rickf
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Re: Dual wheels on M151 or M416?

Unread post by rickf » May 31st, 2022, 8:24 am

The first pic they are 3/4 ton wheels used on the early Dodges and Jeeps, Note the offset on the front wheels. The second pic I can't tell but the tire are jammed together, sidewalls will not last long that way. And last pic, I am very familiar with Vic Hickey and his company since they were THE company along with D*ck Cepek, for off road stuff in the 60's-70's. But again, look at the custom wheels on the outside. And ALL of these vehicles have solid axles so the extra leverage from that outer wheel will only affect the bearing but not the suspension as it will on the independent suspension of the 151.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone

mutt and jeff
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Re: Dual wheels on M151 or M416?

Unread post by mutt and jeff » May 31st, 2022, 9:15 am

I am now leaning more towards some sort of PTO attachment. Either bolted onto the face of a tire and wheel, or in place of a wheel tire or bolted directly to a brake drum face. Now that the flange comes off and can be mounted flush and the camphered lug nut holes facing the correct position, it may bolt up. But the tube just friction fitting into place does not lean towards some sort of drive shaft. The turning of different diameters into this tube and the fabrication of the collar and flange lead me towards a factory product, not a Bubba mod.

Back to the original question...no duals ever on a M416 trailer? Or, for that matter, any other military trailer? I cannot find any pics.

I have several Chevy 1 1/2 ton trucks G506's from WWII and have the Budd wheel lug nuts that allow a rear dual wheel to be reversed and bolted directly to the inner wheel lug studs using a special male and female threaded inner lug nut. Not seeing that for this application.

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rickf
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Re: Dual wheels on M151 or M416?

Unread post by rickf » May 31st, 2022, 3:39 pm

They used dual wheels on a lot of the heavier trailers that were pulled by trucks running duals. Generally the trailers were designed to use the same tires and be in the same weight range as the vehicles pulling them.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone

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rickf
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Re: Dual wheels on M151 or M416?

Unread post by rickf » May 31st, 2022, 3:43 pm

And on your adapters, remember, even bubba had a lathe in his shop a lot of the time. Old school and small town mechanics were set up to build about anything and they had the skills to fabricate about anything they needed. Those could have been something as simple as a mount to add a second spare to the original.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone

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