Dead batteries

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Barrydumoulin
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Dead batteries

Unread post by Barrydumoulin » November 15th, 2021, 8:45 am

First, thanks for the response in an earlier post regarding finding the sweet spot with using the choke when the vehicle has been running for awhile. Didn't realize how sensitive it is.

I was asked by the city to display my A2 for the Feed the Vets event. Well, after backing into the garage, I left the brake light toggle switch on for two days. When it clicked into my head, I don't remember turning it off, I checked and noted minimal voltage left, basically dead batteries. I charged each bank and got the MUTT started again, drove around the block several times, but checking with my Fluke meter, had just under 12 volts in each bank. My question, why is there voltage when even when the brake light switch in engaged, but no one is sitting on the brake pedal. I can understand if I left the B.O. switch on, but the brake switch?

Pic is me in my USCG uniform for a contest with my auto insurance company.
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rickf
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Re: Dead batteries

Unread post by rickf » November 15th, 2021, 9:53 am

If you left you light switch set for service drive but lights off and dash lights off there should not have been any draw. You need to check the brake lights to see if they are stuck on. you may have a bad brake light switch or it needs to be adjusted if they are on all the time. And the dash light switch needs to be left off all the time unless you really need to see that dim glow that shows you nothing anyway. :roll: :lol: As far as the battery reading, what is the reading at the batteries from main hot to main negative while running? It should read 28 volts. If not you have a charging issue. If the batteries are more than 3-4 years old and they went flat for whatever reason then they are probably shot and will need replacing. Always replace in pairs. If you replace just one battery then the old one will drag down the new one and end up destroying both as the alternator overcharges trying to play catchup.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone

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m3a1
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Re: Dead batteries

Unread post by m3a1 » November 15th, 2021, 12:20 pm

What Rick is describing is EXACTLY the experience I had with my A2. The connection being made was so absolutely minimal that the brake lights were just barely illuminated. I never would have guessed but after many hours of tracking that particular gremlin down, that's what it was.

I'm a notorious cheapskate so I went a LONG time before I got around to replacing batteries in pairs. You can get away with it...for a while. The results of employing mixed batteries are many but what you will notice is that when mixed batteries are working together, the combination is never better than the worst battery of the two.

And...be forewarned - if your old battery finally dies next to it's new cousin, it may actually reverse the polarity of your remaining good battery (ask me how I know).

Cheers,
TJ

Barrydumoulin
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Re: Dead batteries

Unread post by Barrydumoulin » November 15th, 2021, 3:45 pm

Thanks all for responding! The dash and service were both off, very rarely "As well stated" would even engage the dash lights. However, one evening I noted my brake lights were stuck on (Had this problem followed me from my 42 GPW where I did have to adjust the set screw on the push rod) but thought is was a fluke. I will monitor this and yes, agree about changing both batteries out and was thinking about the R51 Optima batteries, just a bit pricey. BTW, this is a great forum and useful format, well done on many levels.

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muttguru
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Re: Dead batteries

Unread post by muttguru » November 16th, 2021, 1:07 pm

rickf wrote:
November 15th, 2021, 9:53 am
If the batteries are more than 3-4 years old and they went flat for whatever reason then they are probably shot and will need replacing.
A friend of mine sent me this link ages ago. I thought it sounded a bit like a snake oil solution so I didnt try it out. Has anyone seen this or better still, tried to do this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMPuzmh ... edessource

Ken
Kind regards....
Ken

Always wanted - Details and pictures of M416 Trailer data plates & M151 data plates & body-tags for my research. Thanks!

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Note for 2023..... Ken..."Less Stress - More Exercise!"

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rickf
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Re: Dead batteries

Unread post by rickf » November 16th, 2021, 2:22 pm

That will work in a couple of scenarios but not others. First off, the dead battery has got to be in very good condition to be able to accept a transfer charge from the good battery and second, the very same thing applies to the good battery, it also has to be a very good battery.
Something I do in situations like this all the time is I will hook up another battery to the dead battery and then while that battery is hooked up I will then turn on the charger and let it charge on both batteries for an hour or so. Then I will remove the good battery and let it continue to charge the dead battery. This will work every time as long as the dead battery is not compromised.
I also have several old fashioned battery chargers that do not work off of computer technology. They will charge no matter what and taper off once fully charged. I have found that these older chargers do a much better job of fully charging the battery also. You can always find them at yard sales and auctions, usually for very cheap.
1964 M151A1
1984 M1008
1967 M416
04/1952 M100
12/1952 M100- Departed
AN/TSQ-114A Trailblazer- Gone

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raymond
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Re: Dead batteries

Unread post by raymond » November 16th, 2021, 2:55 pm

I have done exactly that with one of the batteries in my boat.
I have an 18 foot boat with a 150 hp outboard motor.
It has a dual battery system with a switch that I can set to off, battery 1, battery 2, or both batteries.
2 years ago I left the switch on and over the course of 2 weeks, my depth finder ran the battery down after inadvertently leaving the battery switch on.
I took the battery out, put it on an old fashioned charger set for trickle to make my modern battery charger/maintainer/repair unit recognize the battery.
I hooked up the new charger and then disconnected the old charger.
About 12 hours later after a full cycle through the repair/desulfate then slow charge stages and the battery, according to a load tester, was as good as new.
I now have an onboard marine battery charger/maintainer/repair unit designed for a 2 battery bank system mounted in my boat and I have a sign on my dash reminding me to not only turn the batteries off but also plug in the charging system.
I have since run the same battery to no ill effect for 2 more summers.
I will trade them both in next summer as I will not go out on the Mississippi River with old batteries.
I use regular car batteries with marine post adapters.
I run them 4 summers max.
Raymond


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m3a1
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Re: Dead batteries

Unread post by m3a1 » November 17th, 2021, 10:55 am

What has not yet been plainly stated is that new 'smart' chargers will not recognize a battery if it has something like less than 3 volts. Won't even come on which would lead the average fella to thinking his battery is toast. That is something I learned right here on the G838.

Well, let me tell ya...that minimum voltage issue really had me completely stumped for a while and things went so far that I finally went out and bought ANOTHER charger....

(which I now know I didn't need)

and before I did that, the whole situation had me so perplexed (chiefly because I couldn't find my load tester), somehow I even convinced the guy a Walmart that my battery needed to be replaced under warranty....

(which I probably didn't need)

but I think the guy at Walmart was just happy to be rid of me....

(even if it did cost them a battery.) :lol:

So, as a result, I ended up with two Schumacher chargers which are both 'smart' chargers. Having two now leaves me in fine shape for charging multiple batteries independently, plus it allows me to obey that little axiom - Two Is One And One is None. Since almost every vehicle I have has two batteries (don't ask me how that happened because I just don't know) having two chargers is a BIG DEAL....to me anyway.

Once you get past the minimal voltage issue which is accomplished by adding in the second battery to one that is flat-lined (as Rick described) all goes well unless your battery is indeed toast.

By the way, almost everybody sells the old school analog load testers for batteries. They are all variations of the same theme and likely as not, probably all being made by the same Chinaman who applies different stickers for each retailer (so, don't go out and buy an expensive one).

Cheers,
TJ

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svramselaar
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Re: Dead batteries

Unread post by svramselaar » November 17th, 2021, 7:49 pm

hi

if a dead battery wil not get load you can try it at a 24 volts old style loader
then you can see after the while the amps wil get higher if it want to start load then go to 12 volt load

for raymond
i do not use a dual switch you have
i know they will be vergotten by the owner
i have seen it at boats campers and a ambulance
if i make a new wiring iuse a relais like below if the there are two banks
one bank only to start and the other for the rest at the boat or camper
https://www.powerstream.com/battery-iso ... -state.htm

i put also withe thick cables a start relais to connect the two battery`s
if the start battery empty (the other has power)
the command for this relais is a pusch button at the extra battery
now you you have your own starter help ( it happens alwais at the wrong time

if you use the optima battery`s see below
https://www.optimabatteries.com/support ... ery-basics

george

mutt and jeff
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Re: Dead batteries

Unread post by mutt and jeff » November 18th, 2021, 10:38 am

Learned all this with my golf cart. Cart charger would not kick on if the battery charge was so low it would not read. Paid for a tow and service charge to tell me this. So, when it happend again, I would hook up an old style charger and charge one or two of the batteries to get enough voltage to kick the cart charger on and away they went.
One or more of the batteries must have been old or dirty or bad or the Utube scenario would have used the other good battteries to supply some sort of charge to the one or two bad batteries. In the case of six batteries wired up in series to get 36v, I either had all or nothing.

I have rejuvinated old batteries by dumping out the old acid, using vinegar and baking soda to clean up the lead plates and then using ACE hardware drain cleaner acid and distilled water to make up new acid solution and in most cases would get another year or so out of the old battery. I deal with a lot of 6 volt batteries on my WWII stuff and they are not as easy to get as running down to NAPA or WalMart and pulling one off the shelf.

Here is an unusual 6v battery for my 42 Packard. Try and get this from AutoZone.
battery 1.JPG
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m3a1
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Re: Dead batteries

Unread post by m3a1 » November 18th, 2021, 10:43 am

Oh boy, I have been on the lookout for an old style, not-so-smart battery charger for the longest time. Looking for it, mainly at estate sales where it is so easy to become distracted. So far, the distractions come fast and easy; the charger...no dice. :lol:

Yikes. I wouldn't know where to begin looking for THAT battery!

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raymond
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Re: Dead batteries

Unread post by raymond » November 18th, 2021, 10:33 pm

TJ

Considering your reputation for finding cool old stuff, I find it ASTONISHING that YOU don't have an old battery charger :!: :shock:
Raymond


"On the day when crime puts on the apparel of innocence, through a curious reversal peculiar to our age, it is innocence that is called on to justify itself." Albert Camus

Mark
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Re: Dead batteries

Unread post by Mark » November 18th, 2021, 10:56 pm

I can remember from long time ago when you had a dead battery you could revive it for a while by putting epsom salts in it, then put a charger on it for a few hours.I've seen/heard of batteries blowing up while on a charger.No lighting of matches in close proximity of the battery.If this is irrelevant info, please delete it
mark


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1960 m151
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m3a1
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Re: Dead batteries

Unread post by m3a1 » November 19th, 2021, 1:03 am

raymond wrote:
November 18th, 2021, 10:33 pm
TJ

Considering your reputation for finding cool old stuff, I find it ASTONISHING that YOU don't have an old battery charger :!: :shock:
Actually, I did. Bill killed it when he had a small accident doing the electrolysis thing. What are buddies for? :lol:

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