Front Brake Question

[tbh726]

I have changed many disc brakes, but have not done any drums ones so even though i do not think this is correct i wanted to ask. The jeep has sat since 2005 and i got it going about 5 month ago and have put about 15 miles on it since i got it drivable. It appears that they seem oily or greasy to me, however the drum itself seem fine. The brakes stop fine, brake lines look good and dry. the back brakes look like i would think more clean and dryer...

any thoughts?

tim

[Mark]

I thought spraying brake cleaner on it works good, then blowing dry with air hose.

[rickf]

Looks like you have something going on in there. Leaking hub seal or leaking wheel cylinder. What mark said about spraying it all down with brake cleaner but do NOT, EVER, blow out brakes with air! Asbestos will do very bad things to your lungs. And if they happen to be original brake shoes from the 60's - 70's then they are asbestos. Just spray them down and preferably catch the runoff in newspaper or something to toss in the trash. You just don't want the dust getting airborne once it dries out. Once is all dries out put the drum back on and drive it for a week or so and then pull it off and see if there is any indication of leakage.

[tbh726]

Thanks Mark and Rickf i will spray them down and see what happens thanks... One last thing how do i know if anything needs to be replaced or do you use them till they break? Pads almost look new, i did buy new springs lines and shoes, but dont want to replace just to replace...

tim

[Mark]

Aw, my next idea was not better than Rickf his is the best

[rickf]

In one pic the shoe looks dry but the other pic it looks wet so it all depends on what they look like after spraying them down and drying off. Brake fluid dries in a minute. If it is a leaking wheel cylinder and especially if you have the original silicone brake fluid the shoes will need to be replaced. Same if it is oil from a leaking seal. If it is DOT 3 brake fluid sometime, and I say sometimes, you can scrub the shoes with soap and water and they will still work. As a professional mechanic if the shoes were contaminated at all I replaced them. I did not like to take chances with the brakes. From the looks of things there nothing has been serviced in those wheels for a long time. If you bought it this way then you have no idea what the condition of the wheel bearings are. This is a good time to take it all apart and clean and grease the bearings. I would personally replace all of the wheel cylinders just for good measure. That way you know you have new wheel cylinders and shoes and there will be no issues. Bleed out the lines with fresh fluid of your choice, this is the time to change if you want to put DOT 3 in, and then you have a new brake system. With the exception of the master cylinder. I don't say to replace that as general practice because that is a job I don't wish on anybody! If it is working well leave it alone. If you want to change the fluid be sure to suck out all the old and let the lines drain, which they will do on their own as soon as you remove the wheel cylinders. Even if you go with the DOT 5 fluid it is good to drain it all out so you are starting fully fresh.

[Horst]

Given how dirty everything is, I would assume no maintenance was done for a long time. As such I agree with Rick that it is very likely a good idea to re-pack the wheel bearings. Pretty straightforward job. And grease the drive shafts. When servicing the wheel bearings, you will remove the drive shaft at the wheel anyway, remove the caps and check the conditions of the needles. With the unknown service history, very likely that there is rust in there which needs to be removed (and not only fresh grease pushed in).

Did that work last year...

IMG_9607.JPG

[tbh726]

I has been a while, this summer became to busy to get back to this... i can only hope when i am done that mine will look as clean as that pic...

so i have done disk brakes on a modern car/truck never packed bearings... is there any issues or tough issues i will face doing repacking bearings and doing the brakes? Also i have driving it a few times this summer, and had something weird happen, wanted to see if there are more things i will need to replace when doing this job... i was driving and when i pressed the brakes i could feel the driver side grab hard and pull hard to the left... i let up and press it again and it works fine like you would expect... drive for a while and it will do it again on the first press, let up and 2nd press works as expected...

i bought new shoes and strings what bearings do i need to get?

tim

[rickf]

I don't like to be the guy that is the one to say read the damn manual but in this case it is the best route to go since these vehicles are different than just about anything else on the road. So the wheel and hub setup is pretty unique. It is best to have the manual in front of you before you tackle it. I don't have the bearing numbers in front of me and I am headed to bed but I am sure someone will chime in with them.

[tbh726]

Rickf,

don't get me wrong i will read the book over a few times and have it close by that is one thing i have learnt from your wisdom here... another thing i have learnt here, some things look simple but there are gotchas all over the place. replacing the heater core is one for example.

these are the bearings i am looking at:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/332570146235?h ... R4zzkuXpYA

tim

[Horst]

also get the correct cotter pin. With the M151, the cotter pin is the one and only part preventing your wheel coming off. Very simple but IMHO bad design. The castle nut will turn against the cotter pin and as such the right size and quality of the cotter pin is important.

[m3a1]

I has been a while, this summer became to busy to get back to this... i can only hope when i am done that mine will look as clean as that pic...

so i have done disk brakes on a modern car/truck never packed bearings... is there any issues or tough issues i will face doing repacking bearings and doing the brakes? Also i have driving it a few times this summer, and had something weird happen, wanted to see if there are more things i will need to replace when doing this job... i was driving and when i pressed the brakes i could feel the driver side grab hard and pull hard to the left... i let up and press it again and it works fine like you would expect... drive for a while and it will do it again on the first press, let up and 2nd press works as expected...

i bought new shoes and strings what bearings do i need to get?

tim

A lot of guys are wanting you to dig in and service everything and I understand your trepidation. Also, I disagree with the comment that these rigs are a special or different design. It's just that spindles are reversed, meaning the castle nut is on the inside (engine side) of the hub assembly. Get your head wrapped around that and everything else falls right into place. This is a 1960's brake system (1950's if you consider when it was designed) and really nothing high-tech. None of this stuff is so complex that you should be the least bit worried and there are guys here to talk you through it if need be. You don't necessarily need bearings unless you're one of those out-with-the-old, in-with-the-new kinda fellas. Bearings are EXPENSIVE and there may well be more important places to spend your money.

The outer bearing can be tricky because it's usually difficult to get it off the spindle. There is a VERY expensive tool for taking it off (I have one but it's so expensive I never use it). But, guess what....if that bearing is in good shape you can lube it right there on the spindle. Just get a needle attachment and a tube of axle grease for your grease gun and squirt that new grease right into the bearing between the bearing's rollers (after cleaning the bearing out with solvent and/or compressed air). You can even grease up that bearing with a slightly modified flavor injector from the grocery store.

Been there...done that...got the tee shirt!

Personally, I believe what is probably happening with your vehicle may have something to do with your soft (flexible) lines degrading. These are old trucks and grabby brakes requiring some maintenance are as common as the sun coming up in the morning. Basically, those soft lines 'silt in'...they get full of junk and as you might expect, some of that junk may even find its way into your wheel cylinders.

Likely as not your MUTT has been through many hands but the soft lines never seem to get the least bit of attention. So, if you are wise, and while you are in there, this would be a very good time to replace them because even with the newest parts installed on foundation brakes, that stuff will only perform if the brake fluid can get to it (and back). If those soft lines look ancient, they ARE ancient and no soft line escapes the process of degrading.

As for the bearings, I wouldn't spend a penny on bearings until they were out, cleaned and inspected and with that, you will find the bearing number on each bearing. Easy peasy. They are common bearings and with that number you'll have no trouble sourcing new ones which will come with a new bearing race. Repeat after me -

I will NOT mix new bearings with old races.

I WILL replace the race when I replace the bearing.

Invest in a bearing packer. Any auto parts store can get one for you if they don't already have em on the shelf. I enjoyed the old school method of hand packing bearings for most of my years... until I got a bearing packer. The truth is, the bearing packer does just as good a job with a lot less mess.

This may be a lot to process but all this is Mechanics: 101 kinda stuff and your MUTT is the perfect vehicle with which to learn new skills. Brakes and bearings is fun work and doing it will give you an opportunity to become better acquainted with your truck and, as you have already learned, having a MUTT with misbehaving brakes is NO FUN at all.

Cheers,
TJ

[rickf]

I did not say the brake system was unique, I said the hub system was. It is not a normal system found on most vehicles unless you work on foreign cars or more modern stuff. And what Horst said about the cotter pin was spot on, No Chinese junk there!!!

[m3a1]

Good morning, Rick...you grumpy old thing...

[rickf]

And getting grumpier by the day!