Registering in Ohio

[rickf]

Sundawg, You say you have talked to Ken so you are aware that M-151's do not have a real serial number assigned at the factory. Be very careful what numbers you use so you do not duplicate someone elses number if you are pulling a hood number out of the air. I have seen it happen and it ended badly for both the person that did it and also the innocent person with the real number whose vehicle was impounded and by the time they got it out of impound a year and a half later there was little left of it.

[Sundawg3]

What a pain in the rear this title thing has been. Filed paperwork for county court with the hopes of a court ordered title. My case was a month out after filing. Never been to court so I didn’t know what to expect. I was met by the judge, the assistant prosecuting attorney and the assistant county clerk. After an hour of talking, mostly by the tax payer funded opposition the judge turned me down. Said the Ohio revised statutes on court ordered titles doesn’t apply to someone with two bills of sales (one from a judge who bought it from the military auction) dating back well over twenty years.

The American tax payer paid to have these built by an American company. Then the government sold these back to the Americans who paid for them originally. Yet I can’t get a title in Ohio but since the government shipped these worldwide (at tax payer expense) people in other countries can get titles, plates and drive legally!!!!

The judge agreed I should have a tile but said there’s no law allowing him to issue. Said I should contact my representative.

[rickf]

Here is the kicker, Unless you got one of the very rare cases where you have a form SF-97 to go along with that vehicle then the sale never happened. All, and I mean ALL, M-151's were supposed to be demilled and never meant to be driven on the roads by civilians. So no, they were never sold back to Americans who paid for them originally. You were warned about trying to go this route for this very reason. Now I am afraid that if you go the proxy route of getting a tag and title out of state and then coming back and trying again you will run into even more issues. Hopefully TJ will chime in on this because it is right in his wheelhouse.

[Sundawg3]

Not to throw gas in the fire but if you say this is true. Then how the hell are any on the road with titles and license plates?? I’ve seen school buses sold by the local government with the frames cut back on the road converted to motor homes.

[rickf]

Because people got creative with serial numbers back in the days when motor vehicle was not so anal about these things. They would generally use a combination of the miltary registration number and the body tag number to make up a serial number that was accepted by the state. In NJ that never worked and if you did not have a title from out of state you were NOT getting a title. Even worse today. As far as how so many got on the road with the demill orders? A LOT of the ones on the road were demilled, cut in half and welded back together, cut in quarters and welded back together. In other cases some made it out of the government facilities buried under the load of cut up ones so the inspectors could not see them. And a lot of them come from so called "museums" where people get a grant to open a museum and once they get what they want, uncut, they close the museum and keep or sell the vehicles. Technically the vehicles need to be turned back in to the military but the military has no time to go looking for old 151's. Tanks and artillery, yes. I was lucky enough to get one of the few that came with an SF-97 form and a NJ title. Seems the owner worked as a civilian for the military for many years and knew the right people when they were cutting them up. This is why M-151 owners try to keep a low profile when vehicle ownership comes up. The odd's of the government coming after a couple thousand vehicles is quite slim since there would be a lot of lawsuits but they could if they really wanted to.

And keep in mind, Those busses you refer to were sold with a clear title so the owner can do whatever they please with it. Cutting a frame to shorten it is not that big of a deal as long as it is correctly welded back together.

[m3a1]

Well, millions of years ago when I was a young OSHP Trooper the Highway Patrol would examine vehicles for serial numbers and friends, sometimes that effort was truly herculean. We would literally take cars apart. I have no idea if the OSHP still performs that duty anymore but it would seem that (a) the court you're dealing with is unsatisfied (perhaps even confused) which leaves you back on the path where you should have begun in the first place and that is (b) to begin with a vehicle that is unidentifiable (meaning has no actual, physical identifier permanently attached) and that's where law enforcement comes in to help you over the hurdles. We didn't have internet back then so, coming to the OSHP barrack with the kind of info the internet can provide was not possible then and all that was left was physical evidence. So, at this point, I think you should consult with the OSHP or your local Sheriff and explain your circumstances and see if they can put you on the right path. Let them ask the questions and then answer them and leave it at that. DON'T go into a big, lengthy BS session discussing every plasma cut and weld. If you do, they likely think you're spinning them a big yarn.

I'm going to give you a 'fer instance' on how this sort of thing SHOULD go down. If you have been following my thread, you know I got myself an old Ben Hur trailer. I will not turn a wrench on it, nor will I remove paint until I am blue in the face, or do ANYTHING in order to find a number. What I think I know about it is circumstantial so, I won't burden them with all that. (who knows, I could be 100% wrong about what I think I know) What I WILL do is go straight to my local Sheriff, make an appointment for an inspection and present this trailer to them with the hair, the tail, the teeth the claws and the rust still on it. What this does is relieve law enforcement from being asked to put their seal of approval on a vehicle that has been heavily reworked and massaged and messed with (which is exactly how most stolen vehicles that have been wiped of their identity are presented to them).

There are plenty of vehicles out there that have lost their identity and that is certainly not out of the norm for the guys in the Vehicle Crimes Units. A Ben Hur trailer is not a highly sought after collectible (alas, neither is a M151) so If there is no identity to be found and if there is no suggestion that the vehicle has been reworked in such a way that those identifiers have been wiped clean, you can pretty much count on being granted an identifying number reassigned to the vehicle by law enforcement as long as you have other stuff to prove how and from whom you got said vehicle...and that'll be the end of it. But, if you've already messed with it extensively...well, I wish you luck.

Despite your desire to have a particular set of letters and numbers assigned to this former military vehicle, you may have to accept that the best you'll get is a jumbled state-reassigned number....with which you can get a title, go forth, and enjoy your rig. There's no dishonor in it and it in no way makes the vehicle any less valuable. A reassigned number stamped into a frame member means the vehicle has finally cleared the last hurdle, been assigned a number with a provenance and is good to go, forever and ever, amen. For the rest of us with M151s, having that would truly be a blessing.

So, the ball is in your court. We'll all be interested to see what you do next.

Cheers,
TJ

[m3a1]

I think I ought to add that a title doesn't mean doodly squat unless there is an incontrovertible number on a vehicle to go with it. I think that is what the judge is telling you. Go to your local vehicle crimes unit (Sheriff, OSHP or whomever) and begin again with them.